Episode 112: The Suffering of Equity with Dr. Leeja Carter

Dr. Leeja Carter is a true renaissance woman.

A Fulbright Scholar, feminist changemaker, and expert on inclusive and equity-focused practice in health and wellness, Dr. Carter's work has been featured on CNN’s Connect the World, Black News Channel, Salon.com, Self Magazine, Livestrong, Bustle, Women's Health, Pride Magazine, Beauty INC, and Psychology Today. In 2021, Dr. Carter quite literally jumped: she walked away from a 15 - year career as a professor and scholar whose applied research and sport psychology practice centered Black women’s health, community health and wellness and founded her non profit the Coalition for Food and Health Equity where she holds the position of founder and CEO. At CFHE, she toils in racial equity, health, and access often and brings her wide range of skills in research, health and sport equity, development and leading to accomplish practical goals with visionary reach. She is the (Past) Association for Applied Sport Psychology (AASP)'s Diversity and Inclusion Executive Board Division Head and an AASP Fellow. 

Dr. Carter has presented internationally as well as published peer-reviewed publications, book chapters, and popular articles on topics related to feminist sport psychology, black feminist politics, social justice, feminist leadership, gendered racism in sport, inclusion, and diversity. In 2019 she published, Feminist Applied Sport Psychology: From Theory to Practice, an edited text addressing intersectional feminist, womanist, and black feminist praxis in sport psychology. In 2018 she was awarded the Fulbright Specialist Scholar award and served as a Visiting Scholar at London South Bank University (LSBU) on the “This Girl Can” project where she consulted on the center’s work addressing cross-cultural barriers to exercise engagement amongst racial and ethnic girl’s residing in the region.

Dr. Carter received a Bachelor's and Master's degree in Psychology from Fairleigh Dickinson University, a Post-Master's Certification in Exercise Science from California University of Pennsylvania, and a Ph.D. in Kinesiology with a concentration in the Psychology of Human Movement from Temple University.

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Dr. Leeja Carter

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Transcript

Kevin Donaldson: 0:00

This is gonna hurt. It's time for the suffering podcast. We fight for our lives every day, there was nothing that comes easy and most believe that hard work will result in success. The only grace that every human desires is to be given the same opportunities on that road. It is tragic when unnecessary obstacles or roadblocks are put in our path. We all want to be afforded the chance at the same resources and education provided to the rest of our field. The tragedy would lie in the inequality to achieve the same goals that are in front of others around you. Some would say the lucky ones are allowed to walk through life with less struggle. They forego the suffering and a better chance for success. In reality, the fortunate ones are the ones that suffer and struggle the most, as they will be the ones that appreciate their achievements the most. I'm Kevin Donaldson, here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast, we sit down with Dr. Lisa Carter, to discuss the suffering of inequity. Dr. Lisa has taken a stance with her nonprofit and really tried to change the dynamic of food and equity. All right. So Dr. Leisure, thank you so much for joining us. You've been this interesting character that has sort of come to us.

Mike Failace: 1:24

I don't know if characters are good word, though. Is it?

Kevin Donaldson: 1:27

Yeah, you are a character.

Mike Failace: 1:29

He is a character.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:30

You are a character. We

Mike Failace: 1:32

met Dr. Leaves a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. So a week ago, so. And we had probably one of the most intense conversation it was like I said, it's like a whole a whole podcast right here. No, we just we just sat around and talked and we talked for over an hour.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:46

Yeah, like Yeah, like close to two hours.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:48

Yeah, but thank you so much for coming in today.

Mike Failace: 1:51

And I appreciate you putting up with us for almost two hours. Before we

Kevin Donaldson: 1:55

start let's give a shout out to our marquee sponsor, that's Toyota of Hackensack. We don't trust anybody but we do trust Toyota of Hackensack. So if you're looking for a car, go to Toyota of hackensack.com and let them find you a car. Now this episode, I want to give a big shout out to the Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles because I know you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan. Yes sir. All right, so I'll leave now the airing date is February 5 of this episode, which will be about Super Bowl Sunday. It actually less than the truth be told. This is not February fifth when we're recording this but I am like Nostradamus and I am going to say the Philadelphia Eagles are gonna win.

Mike Failace: 2:28

I said the Eagles and Bill's them Super Bowl. That's my prediction. Eagles are gonna win. Eagles are gonna win. I'm not saying who's gonna win eagles. I'm not a gamble, man. But eagles and Bill's in a Super Bowl.

Kevin Donaldson: 2:37

Let's defer to our guest. Dr. Carter, who was going to win the Super Bowl.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 2:42

Fly Eagles fly.

Kevin Donaldson: 2:43

That's right. Look at that. I've been waiting for two years to get an Eagles fan in here.

Mike Failace: 2:53

We had a we had a Philadelphia Flyers person in here who wasn't

Kevin Donaldson: 2:56

even an Eagles fan. Okay, well, but he's a he's a real good friend of mine. And it turns out he's the chaplain for the Jets. So guess which games I get to go to I get to go to the Jets games but your South Jersey girl I am and that's also another thing that's near and dear to my heart because I'm a South Jersey boy.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 3:15

That's why you're you're a shore boy.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:17

No. Well, I'm a beach kid.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 3:19

Okay, beach kid, but you know, we don't consider the Atlantic City South Jersey. We consider that the shore

Kevin Donaldson: 3:26

only people from North Jersey call it the shore I

Mike Failace: 3:28

consider I consider Lenox city like Delaware.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:33

But we've all been there. We've all been here. So Dr. Carter, you've traveled along way you've you've got a really interesting story to yourself, because you're you're really a self made woman. And I'd love to know a little bit more about you. So why don't you tell our audience a little bit about yourself?

Mike Failace: 3:53

Toughest question you're gonna get all night. Yep.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 3:55

You know, like, where do I start? I mean,

Kevin Donaldson: 4:01

Where'd you grow up? Let's start there.

Mike Failace: 4:03

So South Jersey? Yeah, there's

Kevin Donaldson: 4:05

only one there's like the Raritan bridge in South Jersey. Exactly.

Mike Failace: 4:10

If you're not from North Jersey. You're from South Jersey. Shore. No, Kevin's have Benny

Kevin Donaldson: 4:15

NO NO NO NO down there. We call them Shelby's so you know why we call them shoe bees and so down when you go down the rare past like Belmar, your your tourists that come in or Pennsylvania tourists. So you know Belmar is New York tourists down there is Pennsylvania tourists we call them Shelby's then ease is a term for like Belmar Shelby's because in the 60s they used to bring their lunches and shoe boxes. And so if you go down there and use in you mentioned the word she'll be a local say, oh, yeah,

Mike Failace: 4:44

they're coming. I wasn't alive in the 60s.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:48

You were alive in the 50s. What

Mike Failace: 4:49

are you talking about? I see what I'm up against.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:53

Where'd you grow up?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 4:55

Well, I was born in Chester, Pennsylvania,

Mike Failace: 4:57

and I went to college. Chester, Pennsylvania Yeah, so

Dr. Leeja Carter: 5:01

I was born in Chester, Pennsylvania and and all of my family are originally from Dutch country out in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and burden hand. What does that mean?

Kevin Donaldson: 5:13

There's the names of the towns out there a little off color. There's burden hand. There's intercourse there's fellatio.

Mike Failace: 5:22

That's all that's all Amish country. Yeah,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 5:24

you're absolutely right. Well, my family and I are originally from a very small town called Aklan, Pennsylvania, which is close to Parkesburg. So if you've ever heard of Parkesburg, and, you know, when I was, you know, about seven or eight, my mom moved to New Jersey, moved to South Jersey, for a staffer, and then we ended up kind of landing the lawn side, New Jersey, which lawn side is the first incorporated African American town in New Jersey, it was a stock one underground railroad. And that's where I kind of spent the majority of my childhood. But interestingly, where I'm from and Lancaster County, and you know, where my My grandmama lives and my aunts that is also quite historical, and has a lot of history around it. My like, great, great, great grandfather, when a land lottery in Lancaster was a free black when a land lottery in Lancaster. So you can actually trace your lineage back to 1690 Wow, wow. Wow. And so he won this land lottery, purchase or purchase purchased this, this plot of land in Lancaster County. And he part of it was a farm. And the other part became refuge for runaway slaves who were coming across the Maryland Pennsylvania border. Him and his brother were abolitionist. And as folks, we're coming across the border, they then gave them refuge on our family's plot of land. Did he fight? Well, I would say anyone that's an abolitionist is fighting No, no,

Kevin Donaldson: 6:57

no, no to fight. The war of secession Did he Did he fight in civil war?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 7:03

Not my great, great grandfather. But we have been able to trace back that members of my family my ancestors have fought in every American war.

Kevin Donaldson: 7:13

That's, that's important, because one of the things that people don't know is the amount of northern Black soldiers who were a great risk, more risk than being killed, fought in the Civil War, because there was a there was a decree put out by the South that any black individual who is caught fighting against the Confederacy will be repatriated into slavery, whether you're a free man or not. And that's a that's, it's not. It's not only you're gonna get shot out and have to fight. But if you get caught, you go back. Yeah,

Mike Failace: 7:47

you're probably better being killed. Yeah.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 7:50

Well, it's funny you say that, because I think it was his son, fight. I'm not sure which I can't remember which war. But there's newspaper clippings at the time where I guess this would be like my great, great grand uncle, if something was I don't know, if it was like, will be called a lawsuit at the time, but was suing the government in order ticket benefit, because he was a soldier who was injured, and he wasn't receiving medical benefits. And so he eventually went and did get some form of payment from the government. But it just goes to show that during that time, and you know, even as we come contemporarily, you know, that black people have been the number one patriots of the US but their fight for support. Well, it's been deep and long.

Kevin Donaldson: 8:45

So the civil war in general. There's some mix up about that. So if you read the autobiographies of both Robert E. Lee, and Ulysses S Grant, which I've read, Robert E. Lee, was a staunch abolitionist, but he lives in Virginia. So we had to fight for the South. As a matter of fact, many soldiers are buried on a plot of land that was once owned by Robert E. Lee, that was taken by the US government because he didn't pay his taxes. And that's Arlington National Cemetery. All right. Now, Robert E. Lee's wife used to get in trouble all the time, because she would teach slaves how to read, she would give them trades. Because his belief he knew that he knew slavery had to end

Dr. Leeja Carter: 9:24

you can't be two things at once. When it comes to slavery, right? You can't fight for you can't fight for the Confederacy and to keep systems of oppression of black people slavery and, and racism. It is the economic foundation of this country. And when it comes to even you know, as you're talking of, you know, what his plans were or where someone else's plans were. It did, it did not center and it didn't send the actual needs of black people. It's still within the lens of what a white person of power thinks is best. versus thinking about Wait, we're in as we have created a system of deep injustice, and violence and oppression. And why are we not thinking radically about change versus, you know, slow and steady, no change should be radical change should be radical changes

Kevin Donaldson: 10:27

is a dangerous is a slippery slope, a radical

Mike Failace: 10:29

change is tough, because you're gonna get fight from everywhere, rather, like a gradual change. And I'm not saying radical changes wrong or gradual changes wrong, but you make a radical change in anything, you're gonna get fights with every side, let

Kevin Donaldson: 10:43

me bring it back to a current argument that we can we can relate to. So the gun laws are an endless. I'm not saying gun laws are bad or gun laws are good, but they changed. It was a radical change in gun laws where you couldn't have a magazine with a 10 rant with 10 rounds in it. And it was radically done without thinking of the consequences of the actions. So half the police on the road are carrying illegal guns. Yeah, that's, that's radical downto. It has to be it's painful. But it has to be well thought out when you make the rat. And that's what, that's my fear of radical change like that. And, you know, we're here to talk about inequity, more than anything else. And, and that's, it kind of plays into that a little bit. Yeah. When

Dr. Leeja Carter: 11:25

I, when I think of radical change, when I say, radical, I'm thinking of thinking beyond what is comfortable for those in power. Right. And so any change is challenging, any change is uncomfortable. Any change, there's going to it's going to be met with it's going to be messy, right. But because we are up against systems have deep historical oppression, it's unfortunate that the words the semantics of like, how do we create really good meaningful change? Okay, I say radical, but it's just changed, right? And thinking of how change should be implemented, whether that was during slavery post antebellum, or even now, thinking about it more in the conditions of those who were most victimized by systems of oppression. It's radical for those who who are experiencing that. But for those that are inside of it, that are on the on the other side of oppression of oppressive systems. For them, it's like, this is just what's needed. But it's new for it's new for those who who don't experience people are living

Mike Failace: 12:30

it, or feeling it, exactly. Who aren't living it. Or I don't want to say opposed to change, but they're not really living it day by day.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 12:40

It's tough, right? But that's, and that's what privileges, right? All different forms of privilege. But when you have the comfort of not experiencing, what are the challenges of a particular group, right, whether that is black people with disabilities, women, our immigrant population, right? When we don't, when we don't, when we have the privilege not to live in that reality, then we can create a story about what that reality is and how changes can be implemented, right? Oh, well, let's do it slowly. And let's do it this way. But those that are deeply in that experience, need that change. Now,

Mike Failace: 13:17

the problem with slow change is people are going to change your minds midway through that change. You don't say I mean, everybody, you know, then they start thinking it through. And the change doesn't really come the way they really intended it to be.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 13:32

I mean, historically, in the US, we've seen, we've seen deep moments of radical change, right? But change that's necessary, right? integration of schools, right? Okay. Is that radical? Okay? Yes, maybe at the time, wow, we're integrating our school systems. But it's also needed change, right? So sometimes you just have to do it. In order for what's right to occur.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:57

All I say all I caution people on the side of radical changes be is play chess, not checkers. So the whole concept behind chess is you have to think three or four moves ahead. All right. And that way you can guard against possibilities. So if you think three or four moves ahead, no matter what you do, and I teach my kids Chess For this reason, so if you do this, well, here's three possible consequences that could come your way. And unfortunately, a lot of times the radical chess a lot radical change comes from playing checkers and not chess, because you start to see in getting back to the slave thing. It's you It's kind of inhumane to put somebody just out on their own without a plan in place. Well,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 14:42

here's the other thing too, which is what we see, which is why the work we do at coalition is about equity. Right? Is that part of understanding, inequity? Part of understanding systems that have created I have marginalized folks that have removed resources and necessary necessary resources support for folks that so on and so forth, is that we have a tendency in this society to put the responsibility on the individual to say, if we, if we skill you up, if we if you would do if you learn these skills, if you do this, then you'll be able to matriculate at assembly into what is the what is the culture and society now, instead of saying, at a broader viewpoint, right, how will are the current systems, institutions, resources, entities groups, how have they created a situation, that is not helpful for this individual. So even if this person is super skilled up, even if this person, you know, has all the things they need individually, it doesn't take into consideration that they're always going to hit a ceiling that has a, a ceiling of a race cap on it. Yeah. So that's part of what what we do and how we think about things at the coalition is that, yes, somebody can, can be have all the motivation that they need, somebody can have five different degrees, somebody can have, you know, all the different money and education or whatever. But we still live in a society that is going to limit someone's ability to live a full and healthy life, because of how that benefits the larger powerful systems. Right. And so I definitely hear you when you're, when you're saying, hey, like, you know, chess, not checkers, or, and in my mind, I just call that being intentional. But thinking about thinking strategically about how do you create, how can you help someone be able to help themselves? Part of equity is meaning, meeting that individual more than halfway realizing that society as a whole doesn't have everything in place to be supportive.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:59

That's a interesting concept. meeting somebody halfway. Well, I think more than halfway, but yeah, okay, me meeting somebody halfway. You, that's you just touched on something that's super, super important. It's teaching a man to fish will feed him for a lifetime, giving them an official feed him for a day. If you meet somebody halfway, where you give them fish, but you you teach them how to fish at the same time. That's the that's the power behind it. And that's where our two ideologies, which which may be different, and that's good, but that's where our two ideologies can meet in the middle. And that's the important thing to meet in the middle. You have your way. I have my way. Neither of us are right, I hate to tell you. Neither of us are right, somewhere in the middle. That's the net Gray,

Mike Failace: 17:46

wouldn't that solve most of the world's problems if we met met in the middle, or maybe a little past the middle?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 17:54

I agree. I think that I think that because many folks aren't living in the reality of what so many people who are experiencing so many different challenges, right? Poverty, food insecurity, housing insecurity, because they're not living in that situation, homelessness, then it's hard for them to understand how, what the middle or past the middle looks and feels like, right? So when we're talking about it from a position of not being in that experience, particularly nowadays, right? We're not taking into consideration what is the true lived experience of people who are experiencing all forms of, of challenge and inequity? I would say, okay, yeah, we can teach a man to fish, right? And that that man, or that person knows the skill of fishing. But if there's not a lake around, there ain't shit that they can do. If they don't have anywhere to put that fish, or cook that fish after they've had this wonderful skill of getting it, then we haven't helped them. But part of the work that we should be doing is thinking about all of that. What are all the reasons and conditions why somebody could have what they need as a skill? Right? But there's there's not a lake so there's not there's

Mike Failace: 19:19

no way to work with that skill. MD ft. Do ft use that skill? You have no way.

Kevin Donaldson: 19:24

Sam, Sam Kinison used to have a great joke about this. So we were dumping at the time he was telling the joke we were dumping millions into like the Somalia area and stuff with starving children and things like that. Exactly. And he used to say instead of dumping it because they were dumping mill, like billions of dollars into this he goes why don't we just rent them all you halls, teach them how to drive and get them to places where there are food? It's sad, it's sad there. You can't grow anything? No, it was it was a funny way to roundabout say what you're saying. Give them give them teach them the fish, give them a fish, but also take them where there's a lake, right. So Oh, you will buy off is going off.

Mike Failace: 20:04

But just getting back to what you were saying it's, you know, the old saying, you know, walk a mile in my shoes, I always say you see life through my eyes. So if someone saw life through somebody else through someone else's eyes, they may actually grasp the reality of what's going on. But,

Kevin Donaldson: 20:20

but that's judging a book by its cover. So if you were to, I've been all three of those things. I've been poor. I've been homeless. I've been I believe it or not, I've been looked down on all three of them.

Mike Failace: 20:34

But at the time was just today.

Kevin Donaldson: 20:36

Yeah. That's the danger of it. You look at a certain type of people, a certain race of people, a certain gender of people, somebody who is not due to who is not doesn't look exactly like you, and you judge them based on their appearance. You would never think that I was ever homeless, but I was alright. You'd never think that I was ever poor. I grew up very poor. I know what the inequity is of life. Now, you grew up in that South Jersey area in that community? When did you first start to? You know what, you know, what I did forget? I forgot our social media question.

Mike Failace: 21:14

We got this far without.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 21:16

But I do want to say that, you know, I have had the awesome experience of working with supporting meeting so many different types of people. So I don't judge books by their cover. I think that's even more of why we're able to have impact in this work, is because we realize that struggle is looks different. Right? suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering. So

Mike Failace: 21:41

come on, Doc, there's a podcast,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 21:43

I'm sorry. But there's, there's a lot of different faces and experiences to what suffering is right. But everybody doesn't hold that particular frame. Right. And so we know, Hey, someone that is experiencing food insecurity, or someone who is experiencing homelessness. There's a diversity to how they look right? How they experienced that. And also all the different types of resources they might need, right? We know statistically that there's some groups that experience food insecurity, homelessness, at higher rates, higher higher prevalence, and poverty at higher rates than others. But at the end of the day, we know inside of, of all of that is a diversity of folks. And that's how we have to that's how we have to lead and work it. And so, I me personally, I don't you know, I don't know where people have come from, you know. And

Kevin Donaldson: 22:39

I do know where we met for the first time, because they're one of our newest sponsors, and that's three acres properties in Jersey City. That's good this day. Yeah, they're there. They've been really good to us. And actually, somebody from that location gave us our social media question. And our social media question is, how did your early career choices lead to lead you to where you are now? Because it kind of works into this to the conversation now you have this view of food inequity? food and health inequity? This doesn't just happen overnight. Yeah. So how did that how did your your past experiences lead you to where you are now?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 23:17

Gosh, that's a big, that's a big question is broad?

Kevin Donaldson: 23:21

Well, that's a blame three acres.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 23:24

That's a big question. So where do i Where do I start? I'll say I'll say first. Well, you were a professor. Professor. But before we get to the professor, right, this is what I'll say. Up until, you know, getting my bachelor's degree in psychology. I wanted to be a forensic psychologist. Right? I was also an athlete, I've been an athlete my entire life. I went to Fairleigh Dickinson University. Yes, I can feel go devils. Well, it's the knights on the Hackensack Madison devils. I won't hold that against you. But

Mike Failace: 24:04

But Bergen County,

Kevin Donaldson: 24:05

they didn't have a football team and Teaneck. Hackensack campus. You didn't have one either? Yeah, we did. ECAC we had a really good one. Yeah.

Mike Failace: 24:13

Good anyway, but

Dr. Leeja Carter: 24:15

but, you know, my up and up into my getting my bachelor's degree. I wanted to be a forensic psychologist. I was so so so like, absorbed and focused on the psychology of sociopaths, the psychology of serial killers, I should say that I wanted to I felt like at the time I wanted to devote my career to understanding serial killers, but particularly also understanding individuals who perpetrated sexual violence. And so go through my bachelor's.

Kevin Donaldson: 24:48

Here's your next case study. Here's your next guy guy beat you to the punch

Mike Failace: 24:53

you know that time is a first for everything.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 24:56

But but then up until my master's degree my maths This degree is in psychology with a focus on forensics. I was taking a profiling serial rapist class, I still find understanding of joyful class I still I still find understanding the mind of a serial rapist and rapist in general fascinating, unnecessary. It was taught by a retired New York City detective, and he would show us actual crime scene photos, crime scene photos, and we would a lot of the focus was on victimology. Why this victim, right? One day I'm in class, I'm looking up, we're looking at crime scene photos, and I said to myself, I could do this for about five to seven years. I do about five to seven years to still be a happy Okay, person adjusted person sounds

Kevin Donaldson: 25:40

like it might take a PC or solo doing but

Dr. Leeja Carter: 25:42

that was exactly why I said you know what, why don't get one once I get to run the 10 year mark, I would be a different person. And so at the same time, I was a college athlete did Polvo discus, and I had suffered from competitive sport anxiety. As a discus thrower I was super confident. But as a pole vaulter, I would get so nervous, I would have catastrophizing, thoughts, all these different things. And so at the same time, I went to my advisor, and I said, you know, I'm experiencing this as an athlete. And he said, Oh, there's people called sports psychologists that work with athletes who are experienced who experience a range of different issues or concerns related to sport and performance. And so God bless my my thesis committee at FDU. They said, Look, you still got to graduate with your degree in the specialization in forensics, but we will let you do a master's thesis on something related to sports psychology. And so I did my master's thesis on the motivation and confidence within among student athletes and and how does anxiety impact, you know, an athlete's motivation? So I graduate and then I say, You know what I'm going to I think I'm going to go get this degree in kinesiology and sport psychology, didn't really know anything about it. Because again, my whole life had been forensics, I really didn't know anything about sports and

Mike Failace: 27:03

I couldn't spell Kinesiology.

Kevin Donaldson: 27:06

Right now the poem is going to scratch your head going, another word for the catastrophizing, kinesiology.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 27:15

But I didn't know anything about it. And I Googled some some schools, Temple University popped up. And to make a long story short, I've met the most wonderful man in the world, who's still my mentor today, Dr. Michael sacks,

Mike Failace: 27:28

I thought I was the most amazing person she ever met.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 27:31

He took a chance on me because, you know, many, many students and kids that come into sports psychology, know, sports, Psych. And I, I knew clinical psychology, I knew forensics. And so he said, You know what, I'm gonna take a bet on you. At the same time, I was like, Look, I want to know more about this thing called Sport and Exercise psychology. But plus time, I also began to become deeply fascinated in the health issues, the preventative health and chronic health issues that I observed in my own family. Many of the women in my family experienced cancer, diabetes, and other rate, lupus sickle cell anemia. And so I just wondered, Is there a relation, which a relationship between what I experienced in my family even with myself, and physical activity and exercise, and so during my time at tumble, I looked into a lot of different motivation theories, a lot of sociology of physical activity, as well as psychology of physical activity to further kind of peel back. Why might there be a higher prevalence of these preventable chronic illnesses amongst black women? And how my understanding the sociology and psychology of physical activity in some way be helpful in changing those trends. And so my research and my work as a professor focused a lot on that the social determinants of physical activity, particularly in black and brown women. At the same time, you know, I've been in I was at a bunch of different schools. And at Long Island University, I had started a center that really focused on that research, but also provided Sport and Exercise psychology services to the community. So that's really, that's the gist of what got me into health and wellness.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:28

But it makes perfect sense because I was been a runner for quite some time now.

Mike Failace: 29:35

You wouldn't notice.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 29:39

And you're also an extreme meditator.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:41

I am yeah, I am an extreme meditator. It's either hot or cold depending on the season. Now it's cold. Mike stands out back watch me in my underwear. I got pictures. Yeah, but so you take a marathon runner. The typical marathon diet is specially prerace is was always been the pasta pasta night before the pasta party B is a big night before the New York City Marathon I went to it in 2006. Carbohydrates, specially starchy carbohydrates for a runner is probably the worst thing you could possibly do. Just to give you an example, every marathon I've ever run, excuse my language here, but somebody always messes their pants at the 80 mile mark know, right off the gate. Right off the gate, there's a bathroom. So New York City Marathon starts at the Verrazano Bridge in the bathroom, the bathroom line is it's so many porta Johns, you wouldn't you wouldn't believe it. Somebody inevitably will mess their pants. Now as Ultra elite marathoners get older, the old ones, they would they would be plagued by chronic gut issues, chronic arthritis, which is all brought on by say, gluten, because our bodies aren't supposed to process it. What they're finding now is a diet that's high in good fats will give you better fuel than then a carbohydrate rich diet for marathon runners. Now, once they switch their diet, they're able to run faster further and longer. A marathon runner especially elite marathon runners, career would end about 3132 33 Maybe now they're they're going into their 40s. All because of that health and wellness change in sports, I guess it's it's as much psychology as is sports, health and wellness. So it makes perfect sense to me. Have you experienced anything like that, as far as dietary issues changes that you saw, there was a problem. As far as an athlete, as far as an athlete, the ones the ones that you've the ones that you've coached? Well, I haven't coached coach, but talk to

Dr. Leeja Carter: 31:45

worked with work and worked

Mike Failace: 31:46

with lectured

Dr. Leeja Carter: 31:48

during, during my time at Liu when we had peak center. And we were providing sports psychology services to athletes, which is actually just one of the reasons why I just love what I do. But it was not uncommon for an athlete to come in for support around a particular performance related issue. Let's say they, you know, the coach said, your your there's an issue with confidence or, you know, competitive sport anxiety. And then when we begin to peel back some of the layers of that athletes daily experience, we find out well, there, they don't have enough money to to eat, right, they're experiencing, they're experiencing food insecurity, or they're they're sleepless at night, or they're experiencing challenges at home or something like that, which all impact their ability to perform at their most optimal, right. Particularly, not just food insecurity, but also having access to the right type of diet for their body, and for the physical needs that they have with their sport.

Kevin Donaldson: 32:59

So food education, food education

Dr. Leeja Carter: 33:01

and food access, right? Oh, food access is fast food. Food access is access to food.

Mike Failace: 33:08

Yeah, well, I'm telling I'm saying the easiest access to food is generally fast food. Yeah. So you read McDonald's burgers and going out and running. And you know, which intuitive is not

Dr. Leeja Carter: 33:20

helpful. And that all still comes with an expense at the same time. Right. And so something that I observed with the particularly the student athletes, the college level athletes, was that access to healthy food options, and to food in general, regular, consistent food, right? was a problem was the problem. Which we know that there's populations of college kids, I don't know the exact statistic that experienced food insecurity every day, right? And so that just because you're a student athlete, doesn't mean you're not immune to that as well. But then also, yeah, education around, you know, when you do have access to the the food options that you need, you know, what are the best foods for you to eat, not just for your sport before that time, that phase or that season that you're in? As well as outside of of season? Yeah,

Mike Failace: 34:14

well, the I have to say that is the longest answer to a social media question we've ever had.

Kevin Donaldson: 34:20

Probably, probably, you know what? I'm gonna give Dr. Lee. I'm gonna give her a break. I'm gonna pass that portion of the social media question off to you.

Mike Failace: 34:32

What was it again? Could

Dr. Leeja Carter: 34:33

you were we still in the social media

Kevin Donaldson: 34:35

question when we went round about we went around,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 34:39

did I answer? Yes, you do. Yes. You do time.

Kevin Donaldson: 34:45

Your early career choices leading to where you are now.

Mike Failace: 34:48

You know, I mean, my my first career after I left college was I got into the pipe fitters union, and it showed me what hard work is all about. I knew you worked with pipe. Exactly had laid Piper Long time knew it. It taught me what hard work was all about, you know, in, you know, you didn't have vacation days, you know, you didn't have holidays, you either worked or you didn't work, you were paid by the hour, if there's all day you didn't get paid that day, if you didn't, you know, if you didn't want to go to work one day, you didn't get paid that day. So it taught me how to apply myself. Work hard in all elements, hot, cold, you know, everything. And I think that's where I really got my work ethic from, I mean, I'm gonna retire for over six years now I'm working every day because I just can't sit still and stop working.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:39

My early on jobs, made me enjoy hard work, maybe enjoy it. And I miss it. I miss being able to

Mike Failace: 35:48

do it and work hard at Coldwell Toyota who you can.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:50

What about putting up swimming pools and doing construction since I was 13. I enjoyed that type of work because it fulfills you. You go home tired, sweaty, exhausted, you feel accomplished at the end of the day.

Mike Failace: 36:03

That's why I said that work in all elements. That's what that's what working in the construction Union did for me as much as

Kevin Donaldson: 36:09

I loved being a cop. on those nights when nothing happened, I went home more tired and less fulfilled, less fulfilled, almost depressed, that I wasn't able to do anything like you're you're sort of governed, you're held back. And I don't like that feeling. So what do I do, you know, I just I take the opportunity when I have downtime to go work harder out, I'll fill up time to workaholic unfortunately. But I will always find that something to fill that gap because I know that fulfillment of have a hard day's work. And I think it's something that we as a society have gotten very, very far away from. But getting back to the education thing that you you talked about earlier, I see this. I see this in my community because I'm a football coach. And I see this with little kids. So you have a little kid and we got weight limits. And their parents are uneducated, or maybe they're not economically able to get the better foods, or they just don't know, I found that in education is probably the worst out of anything. So you get a kid who's on the border with weight limit. And he comes you know, you get them on the scale week later and he's gained weight. So you're what happening is, well, what do you would you have for dinner? Because I had chicken I'm like, Well, that's good. And then I'm like, wait, I was a chicken cook. Well, who was Kentucky Fried Chicken?

Mike Failace: 37:32

Love that chicken from Popeyes as it

Kevin Donaldson: 37:35

okay. Yeah, fried chicken is not the best health choice that you can make. Okay? And then then you have to go talk to the parents. I say okay, let's let's, let's figure this out. Because I want the kid to play. And then you you from the limited limited knowledge that I have about food. I tried to say well stick to these stick here, do this, do this, do this. Stay away from pasta, stay away from bread, meats, or if you're vegan, because there's a couple of them that were vegan, let's stay away from anything fried with with vegetable oil, stay away from that stuff, anything to give them a leg up. But that's the inequity of education as far as food goes. And that goes across the board. I see this a lot in the inner cities. You go down the inner cities, you go down any inner city, what do you say, See fast food. You see a bodega. Usually a strip club or a bar liquor stores. And that's it's cheap, easy food.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 38:33

And now pharmacies and you know, well, you know, will pump you know, you know, poor food options into communities, right? Knowing that healthy diet is one, a huge preventative strategy and tactic to eliminating or reducing the prevalence of things like obesity, stroke, heart, heart disease, but instead of doing that we pump that we pump that food into various different communities. And then say when you get to the point where you're experiencing this illness will give you some form of form of pharmaceutical to manage it if you

Mike Failace: 39:09

get this shot. Yeah, if you get this just go to the local drugstore. Exactly, exactly.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 39:13

Instead of and that that's how money is made. I was gonna say it's all about this, it's all about money. And instead of investing in prevention, right, prevention, now people are going to lose money, but we'll have healthier communities will have healthier people will have will have individuals that know not only have access to what they need, but also know how to prepare that food because this this

Mike Failace: 39:35

world, this country is run all about the almighty buck, right and they're looking at angles to make more money you do have to follow the money. So you pump you pump them all with the wrong kinds of food and everything else so they do come down with all these different ailments and illnesses and then you push them off to the local drugstore and everybody makes money, but they're not looking out for me and you know, really what it comes down to

Kevin Donaldson: 39:59

us. Aside from the obvious health risks of poor food choices, there are some secondary. I don't know the proper proper term for it, but there are there are some secondary effects to it. Because I do know your behavior is directly correlated to what you eat. Now, if you talk to any teacher who teaches in the inner cities, and I hate to I'm not ragging on the inner cities, but because it happens in the suburbs, too. But it's it's there's a higher concentration in the inner cities where the kids are very, very poorly behaved. And that has a correlation to garbage food going in garbage in garbage out. And I know so I don't know if you ever watch that documentary Supersize Me. Yeah. So inside that there was these little, little vignettes of documentaries in there. And they were talking about a really cool reformed school, where they brought in an outside company to provide them with healthier food. And they watched their behavior change overnight. Do you think that's something? Do you think there's any merit to that?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 41:01

I think a couple of things. I think one, one geography that gets left out the conversation around food access, and food security of our rural communities. And food apartheid is on food deserts, certainly exist in our, in our very rural communities as well,

Kevin Donaldson: 41:18

Amish country, they got to grow with a it's just tough life. Lancaster grocery stores four miles away by horse.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 41:29

That's true. But so that's one thing. But the second is that when it comes to access to healthy food options, consistent access to healthy food options, and options that, you know, someone needs to grow and be strong, what we know is that when it comes to children, a child who is experiencing food insecurity is going to what's the word that I want to use, it has a direct impact to their socio emotional and cognitive development, right? You're not getting she's

Mike Failace: 42:02

gonna blow the Palmer's mind. That sentence right

Kevin Donaldson: 42:06

there, when he listens to this, you're gonna be here, able to hear his head explode, as lips gonna hit the floor.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 42:13

So when a child doesn't have number one, access to regular, regular, consistent diet, right, then it's not going to allow their, their their body, their brain to develop in the most healthy and strong way. So that's just first consistency to options, let alone healthy food options, but then also healthy food options, right, that we know, would markedly help. And just the space of preventative health, right, you know, just being able to live a healthy life, and also have what you need not putting in refined, overly refined food and things like that, which there's studies out there that show that, unfortunately, food options here in the states that have a lot of refined elements and and and things like that processed food, processed food are designed to trigger the pleasure centers of the brain, right, exactly addictive.

Kevin Donaldson: 43:15

So yes, somewhere in the 60s, the food companies realize that I can get people to eat more food more frequently by increasing the amount of processed materials. So,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 43:27

so crazy. Yeah. So with these over processed foods over processed, you know, food items, fast food from your fast food to your Oreo cookies, right? They're cheap, too. They're cheap, right, they might last a little bit longer for depending on what the item is. But also, the science behind how they're created, is tricking our brain, right? To get happy, get happy and get comfortable, right? immediately become sedentary, or become sedentary or discontinue to access and get eat those things, versus helping helping helping our society helping people eat healthier options that aren't designed to trigger those pleasure centers, and instead allow your body's hormones to tell it hey, I'm eating and I'm full. And I don't need anything else. Right? So there's a science behind all of

Kevin Donaldson: 44:24

this. There's one thing, Dr. Carter that people are going to listen to this and everybody's going to agree with exactly what you're saying. But I guarantee somebody sitting out there and go, Well, you know what, I'd love to eat healthier, but Whole Foods is freaking expensive. And that's

Dr. Leeja Carter: 44:39

a very, very, very real thing. Food is expensive, right? Food is expensive, and then let alone whole food whole, a whole foods market, but then also even or organic food, right? So let's just even talk about the economics of food. You know, when we say hey, yeah, eat healthier as someone goes out and buys a bag of kale They're gonna have to eat their kale within two days. Right? Which then just from a weekly desire of wanting to bring more kale into your diet, we've now increased the cost for that family to eat healthier, right? So there has to be very meaningful conversation around food cost, if we want to engage in preventative health strategies just around nutrition, right?

Kevin Donaldson: 45:23

Well, there's so we've we've touched on so many different issues here. We're talking we touch about the psychology behind behind food, we touched about the health issues behind food, we touch about the economics behind food. And these are all this is a very broad problem you're tackling. It's like a huge, broad problem.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 45:40

That's why I'm busy. You guys did I had to turn my phone off.

Mike Failace: 45:45

My thing is the ever changing idea of food, like we talked about before,

Kevin Donaldson: 45:52

the food pyramid. So yes, right. We

Mike Failace: 45:55

talked about hunger. Yeah. And we talk. I mean, it's come up back in the day, they you say that egg whites was great for you, and don't eat the yolk and all that stuff. Now they say the yolk is good for you. I mean, it's ever changing. You know, you never know what's right. And what's wrong anymore.

Kevin Donaldson: 46:09

Have you ever heard the term breakfast is the most important meal of the day? Do you know who

Mike Failace: 46:14

started that? McDonald's? Companies? Charles

Kevin Donaldson: 46:18

Kellogg? Yeah, Kellogg's cereal, which was it was designed to sell more cereal, which he The reason he I don't know if you know story about it. The reason he decided he designed Kellogg's cornflakes was to he thought food had a direct correlation with sexual behavior. And he wanted to curb sexual behavior. So he figured bland food would curb sexual behavior. It's really interesting guy. Strange, really, really strange. But he that's that's so that food pyramid in the 50s and 60s was created by companies. Just the same way the dairy industry inundates we don't need dairy. Our bodies don't need that. Yeah, it's good. Milk is good. But we don't need dairy past infancy. We're one of the only creatures on the planet that drink milk after infancy. But the dairy and you know, very good and vitamin D, it's not a good source of vitamin,

Mike Failace: 47:08

does milk really make your bones stronger?

Kevin Donaldson: 47:10

No, you got to drink it, like you got to drink a vat of milk before you get the proper vitamin D. And so it's those advertisers and they're all chasing the money and they want to sell their product, where you're kind of going against the grain you got an uphill battle with your nonprofit?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 47:27

Well, you know, my dad wouldn't list things my dad told me before he died was you're tough. That's what he said, lead you. You're

Mike Failace: 47:35

tough and strong willed.

Kevin Donaldson: 47:39

So let's so how are you? Dr. Lisa Carter, going to change this.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 47:45

That's the beauty of the Coalition for food and health equity. The one of the the magic, I should say around Coalition for food and health equity is that no great thing can be done alone. And that's why it's called the coalition. And so how are we going to play our part in transforming? What health should look like what wellness opportunity should look like? First, we tap into the technology of community. And what that means is that looking at things from an economic framework,

Mike Failace: 48:19

I was gonna say is a community specific. It's wherever we land in

Dr. Leeja Carter: 48:23

the community, you know, but looking at things when we're talking about food insecurity, exercise, apartheid, access to mental health services, all these things that integrate to help someone live healthy. We don't want to put a bandaid on any one thing we want to get to the root of the issue. And the root of it is economic inequity, economic injustice, right? How are what are the causes and conditions that are constantly recreating a system and an environment where people don't have what they need to live healthy and whole lives? So for us at the coalition, we look at this through an economic micro economic framework meaning tapping into our local neighborhoods, right, our local small businesses, and converting them into being what I like to call changemakers and health, telling a small business owner, you know, you're an entrepreneur, you you've got this cafe, or you've got this studio, whatever, but how about we bring you into a culture or community of helping to transform what health looks like, in your just even in your block, right? So we work with local small businesses, and have them come in to be changemakers and help with us to help them connect the particularly with restaurants, the healthy food that is on their menu, right?

Kevin Donaldson: 49:48

Well, McDonald's did that. They put a salad on their menu. Do you know the only the only two things on the McDonald's menu that don't have sugar or to McNuggets in the fries?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 49:57

But see this is not about having One option, right? Because for us, we want we're addressing, one of the things we're addressing is food insecurity. And we see there's a whole population of folks that don't have what they need everyday to live a healthy life and award to have the food that they need regularly, right. And so one, one aspect of the work that we do is we say, hey, let's work with our small businesses, our local restaurants, they create pretty much menus that we approve, we work with our nutritionist that we approve that then are delivered to the doorsteps of anyone that's involved in our free meals subscription program, so that way they have access, and they're getting healthy food options, healthy pre made food options from a local restaurant, that's also catered to their medical needs. And that's the thing here cuz yeah, we could just throw salad right to everyone or brown rice or whatever. But if someone you know, is pre diabetic, or if someone has a particular medical condition, that's not helpful for them, right? And that's also when we're getting to, like, what does true equity look like? It looks like giving people what they need in the way in which they need it. Right. Now, a couple of our other programs, one of our other programs, we say let's take it a bit further, right, and try to make food and wellness services, a corner like a like on your corner option. And so with our community fridges that we have and other things that we're doing with our community fridges and then invites folks to say, look, you can enroll in our program, we deliver those meals to you or you can go to one of our refrigerators and take what you want. Without any questions no questions asked. Just take what you want. Tell me

Kevin Donaldson: 51:40

where these arm going.

Mike Failace: 51:42

Is there any complaints area sounds delicious.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 51:46

We have for right now we have one in St. Luke's church we're launching tomorrow St. Luke's Baptist Church in Paterson, New Jersey, we have one ml pilgrim churches food pantry in Passaic. We have one at NJ CRI in new work in their Crossroads facility, which is a drop in facility for folks, particularly folks experiencing homelessness to come in and get a variety of services. And now they can come and get you know, healthy food options. You can also address the city that had some Pride Center on December

Mike Failace: 52:18

24 will be in Paterson, we're going to start by maybe address for you, you should come with us

Dr. Leeja Carter: 52:24

it is that 269 Fair st write that down to 69.

Kevin Donaldson: 52:28

I'm just gonna, I'm gonna tell blue magazine stop there when we're giving

Dr. Leeja Carter: 52:32

Luke Baptist churches food pantry food and giving pantry. And so for us the magic behind what we do is hey, we certainly can make healthy premade meals and deliver it or give it to folks or just give salads to everyone. But when we need to tap into the local micro economy, our local businesses, help them build their capacity, help them do help them kind of reinvest back into the community right financially, while also then providing a diversity of food options for folks that are involved in our program by doing this, and then we also partner with community agencies and things. By doing this, we're kind of reshaping what community looks like through an economic framework, right? Because I can I could make a bunch of macaroni and cheese or something like from my house. But how is that helping the local economy? So we have to kind of pump resources, financial resources into the local economy. So that way, it begins to kind of build up in that capacity in that way, while also plus on addressing food insecurity for someone else. Immediately.

Mike Failace: 53:38

Well, don't don't tell me mac and cheese is bad, because that's one of my worst things ever.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 53:43

I'm not going to pass judgment.

Kevin Donaldson: 53:44

How do you how do you build a framework of sustainability around those these healthy options? Yes, it's great that people can go in there and get a healthy food option. Because I love that, you know, it's all about making good choices. You can make good choices in these pharmacies and CVS and Walgreens, you can go in there and instead of the Snickers bar, you grab a bag of nuts or something. It's a better choice. It might not be the best choice, but it's a better choice. A How do you create a sustainable mindset with these folks? Do you educate them? Do you tell them look, just eat this food and tell me how you feel? There's me feel better? What What's your plan on that?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 54:20

Well, there's a couple of answers to your question. I mean, the first when it comes to our community fridges are you Java community fridges? The beauty of that is that it's also leveraging technology in order to advance both Food and Nutritional Security. But then also other forms of health needs is we have a couple new programs coming out. But within the refrigerators, the refrigerators are super cool. They're basically big computer. And all the food items that are placed in that refrigerator have digital tags on them that the refrigerator centers pick up. That information goes to the front of the kiosk that's on that refrigerator as well as to an open website, so folks can kind of serve and shop the fridge and learn specifically about what is what are the nutritional components of the food items in that refrigerator. But they can also go to the open website and say, hey, you know, there's a refrigerator close by to me, and I am gluten free, right, and they can look at all the gluten free options that are currently in that fridge that we just restocked, currently in that fridge to really learn more about it. When it comes to our Hunger Project, a lot of different things, I mean, our Hunger Project program really provides much more custom pre made meals to folks involved. And so when we're learning about the client, and then being responsive to the client's needs, and how we dispatch meals to them weekly, so that's why many clients are referred to us from their doctors, from an another social service agency. So there is a hey, you know, I heard about your program. And, you know, maybe I'm diabetic or pre diabetic, I'm also experiencing food insecurity, and maybe housing insecurity or something like that. But I want to be able to eat better, but I don't, I can't afford it. And so what our program does is help alleviate many of those challenges. It provides you that healthy food option that you need to individuals enrolled, and also addresses that food insecurity and nutritional insecurity. So folks are they have access to the menu of food items and the nutritional components in those food in those food items. Going into 2023, we will be bringing on a nutrition educator that can work with individuals within our program, even if it's just to help them learn a little bit more about what they're eating. And if they can, if they might have the resources to maybe replicate some of the foods that they're that they're eating.

Kevin Donaldson: 56:46

Because what I found, especially people of lower economic status, they want to give their kids the best. Like they the parents, especially, they want to give their kids the best to give them that that little

Mike Failace: 56:58

leg up if they don't have the means to do it. Correct. Or they don't

Kevin Donaldson: 57:01

have the education to do it. It's one or the other. They don't have the economic ability

Dr. Leeja Carter: 57:05

to do both. Right. I think that but you know, education is a very big broad idea, right? The more that, you know, at least me I tell people the time I have for degrees, and what I the the more educated I've become, the more I realize, I don't know, right?

Kevin Donaldson: 57:22

That's what education is, it's

Mike Failace: 57:23

realizing the more you learn, the more you the more you learn, the more you know, you don't know. That's

Dr. Leeja Carter: 57:27

exactly what Socrates Yeah. And so

Kevin Donaldson: 57:30

it Socrates said, The only thing that you should not learn in this life is that you know, nothing.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 57:37

But I say that to say that, when we use the when we say education is such a kind of like monolithic big term, because someone can know a kid know, a reasonable amount about one particular thing when it comes to food and nutrition, and not something else. Right? And so it's really about what do folks need? And what might they not have the resources and access to? To be able to do the things for them, right? And you have certainly even access to edge like something around like, you know, what's what's a good salad to eat for me or or if someone is diabetic or pre diabetic? What is a diet that they should adopt? Even having, knowing where they can find that information, in order to read it and to to learn is also a barrier for many folks?

Kevin Donaldson: 58:24

Well, that's something important with those kiosks that you're telling me about. They have access to that information. It's their choice, whether they choose to use it, but at least it's available to them you're making, you're putting it in front of their face.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 58:35

And what we found what we found with our refrigerators is that I'll give you an example, at one of our refrigerated locations. An individual said, you know, they had been wanting to move to more of a meatless diet that go vegetarian or vegan. And they were also they also are experiencing homelessness. And so

Kevin Donaldson: 58:55

they have Eagan homeless person. Wow. That might be the first I've ever heard that.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 59:00

It's not the first that I have. First I've ever heard that. That's definitely not the first we have. We have many, many folks who are unhoused or homeless who were vegetarian or vegan. And because of the programming that we do through our Hunger Project and no drama, we can we can provide them the type of meals that are reasonable and necessary for how they eat so they, regardless of the other struggles that they're experiencing, they can at least if they're vegan, then they kit that we will make you vegan food, if you're vegetarian, vegetarian food, all the things, it shouldn't be that because you're experiencing one thing, you have to automatically experience something else, right? Even though we're trying to work to you know, help dismantle these other areas of challenge but in any case, the story that this individual said yeah, you know, trying to go meatless and didn't have access to food options to be able to do that because he wanted to live healthier. And he said now that we have the refrigerator, he comes there you know in the morning for breakfast gets, you know, his his vegan, gluten free eats, you know, and then lunch gets his, you know, vegan vegetarian options. And so it's allowing him in a way that is dignified, that does carry, and on His terms, eat in a way that is good and right, while also, you know, tackling the other challenges that they're experiencing. That's the other thing with coalition is that we believe in dignity, dignity and care that everything that we do the messaging, the branding, how we place things, we, we want it to be wrapped in care and love, right? We don't believe, hey, I'm just going to throw some you know, you know, a canned good at you or something like that we, we want to we want to say okay, what what do you like to eat? Right? What is good for you, and let's package it also, the delivery of our meals are packaged with love, right? So we want at the end of day people to know that there's at least one organization out there that cares for them. And food is one way amongst other ways that we show how we care.

Mike Failace: 1:00:54

I think dignity is a good word when it comes to this too, you know, people they don't want to, they may be overweight, you know, and they don't want someone to tell them how to eat, you know, and it's almost I don't want to say against their dignity, but they're almost afraid to come out and say, I don't know how to eat, right.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:01:13

But also think about how the messaging around body, right? That if your body doesn't look a particular way, or if it's not a certain type, then then then it's gonna point

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:24

to a poor diet makes hair increases hair loss,

Mike Failace: 1:01:27

so I gotta hashtag.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:01:29

But but even but even the messaging and the narratives and the larger discourse around, you know, that the ideal body type should look a certain way, right? For monitoring for body shaming, right. And then let alone, you know, wanting to support someone who is overweight or obese. This layer the psychology around just how they might have experienced their body, people speaking to them, right, the stigma around that is a huge barrier is a barrier to helping folks engage in the type of healthful activities that could be good and right for them. So it's not just about Okay, eat this or, or exercise in this way. It's also peeling back the internal stories that they have, from various different forms of stereotypes and things that might also impact them wanting to engage, let's just say physical activity. You know,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:02:23

if somebody wanted to get involved in your organization in the Coalition for food, health, food and health equity, I get those two mixed up food and health equity. How can we how can we find you?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:02:33

Well, you can first go to our website www dot ATT coalition equity.org you could visit us on Instagram at coalition underscore equity. Or you can visit our Jama Cafe which is our community refrigerators at Jama spell you J A M A cafe on Instagram, and you also have a gala coming up. We have a huge gala coming up called the love and equity Gala. It is our annual gala to support and help sustain all the work that we're doing. And so this February 14, the day of love

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:08

next week, that's gonna be next week,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:03:12

the Day of the Day of love, where we invite people to come and one celebrate the work that we've done in the past year, but to just have a good time. I mean, one thing that coalition is known for is good food.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:25

So you're going to be serving burger is going to be catered by Burger King. Yeah,

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:03:27

it's going to be it's going to be catered by a wonderful delicious caterer. And so come out, eat well support a great cause support a great cause but But it's more than that. It's also being in community with people who are doing purpose driven work. That's the beauty of our gala is that you're supporting us. But when you come into our gala, you literally can turn to your right or left and there's somebody doing some amazingly dope ass work to

Mike Failace: 1:03:54

and where is this gallon? How can people find tickets to it or

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:03:58

the gala will be held at White Eagle Hall in Jersey City. You can go to love and equity that org which is our gala website, you can always just again go to our main page on coalition equity.org That'll take you to our gallery as well to purchase tickets or you can just donate or you can sponsor tickets for someone who can afford the gala to come and join us

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:19

you also have social media presence as well. I want to give that out Dr. Leisure

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:04:23

that mean Yeah, I mean Dr. Leisure people can follow me and follow my adventures at Dr. Li Jia on Instagram.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:32

So just a quick note for the audience out there that is how we came across Dr. Legion. Dr. Li G I notice at all at once followed all our pages followed all my Mike told me to my toes you followed all our pages and that's what usually makes me note I usually

Mike Failace: 1:04:51

hashtag Mike's army. Then I then I she heard episode nine Yeah,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:55

Prairie Fire then I heard that I heard talked to Mike and I go Mike because I saw was Jersey City I go Mike, who is Dr. Lisa Carter, and he tells me all about you, then I get in contact with you. And here you are, you've had, you really got an uphill battle. And your suffering is not over by any means. But going through what you did and trying your best to make your imprint on this world and leave this world a better place than you left it. What do you think the suffering of this journey has taught you?

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:05:25

Well, first I was having suffering my entire life. You know, I, you know, I have a very interesting background and childhood experience. You know, the beauty of suffering is that one, the lessons that you learned through struggle are priceless, that you can't get from a textbook you can't get from a lecture. But for me, my journey was suffering and with really trying to build up this nonprofit, and the work that we do is this beautiful divine resilience that is experienced on the other side of that. And so it's through suffering are the lessons and the the teachings of how to be resilient. How to persevere, and that anything that is meaningful in life, and purposeful in life will always be tough. So yeah,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:17

you're hired?

Mike Failace: 1:06:18

Yeah, okay, I was gonna say, I know, we're wrapping this up. But I can honestly say, I think the world needs more people like Dr. Carter. Absolutely. You know, she's so animated, and so into what she's doing, and you're doing different work. It really is. It may it makes me hate myself. No, no, you really are, you're into what you're, and you're doing great work, you know, and you are so adamant about it. And it's just and you always have, we always have a you had a smile on your face the whole time you're here and you can just tell your love for what you're doing.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:06:52

I mean, what's what's not the love? I mean, when you know that one of the reasons why I left academia was because I couldn't really see the full impact of what I was doing. And the coalition and with the community based work that I do, there is an immediate impact that happens by a decision that you make that I make every moment in the day, which means that I am much more mindful about how I move in this world. Because me doing what I do impacts so many other people and their ability to live well. Right. But second to that, we have so many clients that call in to say you're helping us you help me eat healthier. You know, we have 80 year old clients and so do clients literally, that call it no like Dr. Lee, they call me Dr. Lee. I can I can, I'm able to manage my diabetes because of your program, I'm able to eat healthier because of your program. I'm learning I had we had one client who we have overnight oats as our breakfast option. And when our funding ran out one day, one less last year, he called up he said I love those overnight oats so much I tried to make it myself. So they didn't come out as good but I tried. And I'm like just the exposure or at least something at least you tried the exposure to something healthy, the exposure to these options, right? And then the way that we deliver it making sure that it is in line with what our clients want What is there not to smile about you know, you're doing God's work you know that you're changing people's lives. Yeah, that what is there what is there not to smile about you know, so

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:32

I certainly appreciate what you're doing. Thank you so much for coming in here and talking about it. And I look forward to hearing some great things about from you in the future. You're once you're here you're always family we're always behind you will always plug whatever you need to have plugged and we look forward to great things cool beans,

Mike Failace: 1:08:49

your family now so always we we expect you to be able to all of our events, we'll come to all your events and

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:57

I'd love to go to the gala. I really really want to go to the gala.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:09:00

I don't know what you would have a terrific time at the gala at

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:03

least I'll be able to eat something because every every place I go I can't eat anything no free.

Dr. Leeja Carter: 1:09:06

I know you will be well fed Gala, we pride ourselves on the food on the catering and other vibes. Yeah,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:15

that's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast. And as always, let's think about all the stuff that we learned. Let's meet halfway and changing the system. The face of inequity comes in many forms. Poor diet has a litany of side effects. Provide what people need to thrive not only to survive, but most importantly, dignified those who can and engage in purpose driven work. That's going to do it for this episode of the suffering podcast. Don't forget to follow us on social media. Instagram Facebook, Tik Tok. Follow Mike and Mike underscore Felice follow me at real Kevin Donaldson. Don't forget you can always listen before you watch all our episodes come out on Sunday at 4am. And don't forget to visit papale.com for a nice 20% discount but in tsp 20 for a nice digital business card and when We're gonna see you on the next episode of suffering podcast