Episode 111: The Suffering of Divorce with Marcy Cowen

Divorce has become an epidemic in modern society. Marcy Cowen is a vocal representative of the pain and brokenness of divorce but shows you can rebuild yourself and live a full and wonderful life. Marcy‘s brave voice speaks out about her trials and tribulations going through a divorce after 15 years of marriage and the impact it had on her emotional and financial state as well as her children. With 50% of marriages ending in divorce, this episode hits home for many people.

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Transcript

Kevin Donaldson: 0:00

This is gonna hurt. It's time for the suffering. Podcast. Solitude for most, is a very foreign concept. We are social creatures by design that crave interaction with others. We have a desire to partner up and create a team that we hope follows us for the rest of our lives. with good intentions and a loving heart, we find a compatible mate. The instant feeling of completion fills our souls and stabilizes our needs. What we believe is the last piece of the puzzle to create a solid future. Then chaos ensues and throws this belief into confusion. Everything we believe is turned upside down. And we're left trying to make sense of what went wrong. We are given a bag of broken pieces that we must reassemble with no instructions. I'm Kevin Donaldson here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast. We welcome Marcy Cowen to discuss the suffering of divorce. Marcy has gone through her trials and tribulations in the marriage world and come out on the other side a little bit cleaner. Not to mention you're one of the few people who are open and honest about divorce. So thank you for coming in today.

Marcy Cowen: 1:10

Maybe a little too open and

Mike Failace: 1:12

there's almost a common thread in the room tonight.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:14

Pretty much pretty much but let's not dismiss the elephant in the room. The volcano, the volcano the hurricane himself, our special co host Mike De Palma Mike it's always a pleasure to have you and great to be

Mike DePalma: 1:27

here and I do appreciate this thing

Mike Failace: 1:30

Well it's funny because everybody

Mike DePalma: 1:33

is that is that a filter?

Mike Failace: 1:37

Everybody from Hoboken has like a like a nickname or something right? You've got like the hurricane like the volcano Mikey three chins, Mike.

Mike DePalma: 1:46

Mike the lip it's going

Kevin Donaldson: 1:48

live was a good live was a good one. Before we get into anything, let's throw a big shout out to our marquee sponsor. That's Toyota of Hackensack. We don't trust anybody, but we do trust Toyota of Hackensack. So if you're looking for a car, go to Toyota of hackensack.com and they'll be able to help you out. So Marcy,

Mike Failace: 2:04

like actually stolen Toyota one time.

Mike DePalma: 2:06

What else is this has nothing to do? This episode is not about me and my life and it's an honor to be next Tomasi, not another. No, I don't really like

Kevin Donaldson: 2:21

Marcy, each week, we take a question from one of our one of our audience members. And some of the questions are a little out there. But this one was really good. And I chose this one specifically for you, because we are talking about divorce today. And this one comes from Steve M. And it's not the Steve M that both of you know, when is it time to call it quits? That is a general question in anything in life. There is a beginning and and there is an end. When do you think it's time to give it up?

Marcy Cowen: 2:51

I would say when the children are being affected, as that's specific to divorce was specific to divorce. Correct? You know, when the love is lost, and you feel I mean, if some people go through therapy, some people go through couples counseling, some people don't, I didn't have that opportunity. So I never went through that. But some if they go through all that, and it's just not working and you don't love each other anymore, then call it quits, then be done with it.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:20

It's a tough decision to make, especially when it's okay, this is it. This is it. But it could be in anything in life. Mike, what do you think?

Mike DePalma: 3:28

I think when it just gets overwhelming, it gets to the point where, you know, it's not about the children. And you know, it becomes personal.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:38

What about like a just something outside of divorce, say a job, because you know, you had to make the decision to end your career. You know, you had to make a decision or someone else made the decision. Or you're like, when you decide when you decide to call it quits on Saturday. Like, how was that decision even made?

Mike DePalma: 3:58

When it comes to the workplace, I mean, an occupation a job. I mean, when the phone when the phone is gone, you know, I experienced that as a police officer and I used to love my job I loved every day and it just started to not be fun anymore. So

Kevin Donaldson: 4:14

so it's got some commonalities. Quitting doesn't have to be specific to divorce or job. It's kind of like, I'm assuming the love the fun was all gone.

Marcy Cowen: 4:25

And it's time assuming it was there in the first place.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:29

This is gonna be a fun episode. My mike What do you think?

Mike Failace: 4:32

Yeah, I think my get on and when it's no longer fun when it becomes like all consuming DNL you know, and you're dreading doing something. When you no longer take love out of it anymore. I always say like, you know, if you don't like run into a wall, stop, run into a wall. If it's not fun in the morning, then then just don't do it. But you have to have a fallback plan.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:50

It's like when when your kids come to you and say, hey, my shoulder hurts when I do this. Don't do that. Exactly. We're punching on the other arm against the shoulder doesn't hurt any

Mike Failace: 5:00

I mean, if you're no longer enjoying something, then you know, I mean,

Marcy Cowen: 5:04

I actually found it easier ending the divorce than I did some jobs that I've been at. Will becomes like a family. Right? Yeah, it's Yeah, I mean, well, leaving the job. I mean, I left a few jobs for different reasons. But I felt that to be easier than you know, than leaving the divorce or right look for different reasons. You know, I'm saying like, it was easier leaving my ex husband or he left me to whole story. That was easier ending almost then leaving the jobs and vice versa. Sometimes, like different reasons for each well, you

Mike Failace: 5:34

don't want to divorce is more, you're in your comfort zone. You know, you're used to going home to your house every day, and then everything's just uprooted. Right? And believe me, I went through it. And it's a total life changer. I stayed probably a lot longer than I should have. Because you try to do what's right, it was comfort. You know, I stayed there because of the kids. And you know, I grew up in a family with divorced parents, I know what it was like to not come home to a father every day. And I never wanted my kids to go through that.

Mike DePalma: 6:02

I grew up. Not one person divorced and my family same with me. So it was it was a shock. You know, I But see,

Kevin Donaldson: 6:10

I grew up in the opposite, where my parents weren't divorced. They should have been, they should have been. So, you know, I when I read this question, I thought about it in terms. And I actually got kind of sad when I read this question, because I thought about it in terms of this show. Because eventually, it's going to come time, hopefully 10 years, hopefully 20 years. But eventually, it's going to come time where the show is no longer a viable option. Nobody wants to listen to it, or however it is, and it's going to be time to call it quits. Hey, I just I started thinking how am I going to approach that because I love doing this so much. I love when the when the lights come on, in the cameras come on, and talking into the microphone and whatever comes those those thoughts that just bounce out of our head. And it's gonna be very

Mike Failace: 6:58

stupid things that I say I'm gonna have nobody to save them to anymore. Nobody's

Kevin Donaldson: 7:03

gonna call Mike up, you know, I'll call them on the phone. And I'll just say something stupid, but it's not going to be the same. You know, but I imagine when it's time it's time. It's like with our careers and law enforcement. It's time It's time. You know, and it's, but it's never going to be an easy decision. So, you know, I can't answer. I think it's going to be when the the love of it and the fun of it are gone.

Mike Failace: 7:24

But you know what, Kevin? I mean, getting back to that, though, with the show in general. I mean, how many times we call each other? You got a great idea for a show. Yeah. And y'all and you sit there and we and we start bouncing ideas off each other. We could do it this way we could do it that way. We no longer have to show I may never talk to you again.

Kevin Donaldson: 7:42

You know that? Wow. I'd be if I didn't talk to you guys that might that might be a good thing. No, I'd be relevant to the ending of anything is never is never easy. And it's never

Marcy Cowen: 7:53

good things come to an end. I'll say, Yeah, you know, one day, we're all going

Kevin Donaldson: 7:57

to come to an end. And you know, but that's going to be beyond our control. Unfortunately, pay in taxes and death are the two certainties in life. Steve, thank you so much for sending that question in. I'm going to be thinking about that question. Thank you for for keeping me up at night. And I'm going to be thinking about that question for a little while now was a great question.

Mike DePalma: 8:16

That was a great one. So I was encouraged. You can relate that to anything, right? Yeah, that's,

Kevin Donaldson: 8:19

it's you know, when's it time to give it up? So I want our audience to chime in on that one. If you if you got an answer to that question, leave a comment below, we will answer it. And thanks for sending that in Steve, at

Mike Failace: 8:30

least give us your ideas. I mean, yeah, we're just getting four ideas here. People chime in and let us know, we could revisit that question of the day. That could

Kevin Donaldson: 8:37

be the social media question every week. And we'd never run out of material on that one. So Marcy, we've had a lot of discussions here. And I gotta be honest, too. So Mike, and I came up with great Wow, be great, even though we all in this room have experience with divorce. Nobody really seems to open to talk about the subject. And, you know, it's a tough subject to talk about, because it is somebody at one point you did or thought you cared about. There may be children involved, there may be collateral damage to whatever you say. So nobody was very willing to come forward. And we were talking about something different. We were talking about something with with three acres. And, you know, you had mentioned something about divorce and like, Wait, timeout,

Marcy Cowen: 9:20

I talked about how Mike and I connect it. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Kevin Donaldson: 9:23

That's exactly.

Mike DePalma: 9:24

Right. Sure. A lot of similarities. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 9:26

And do you remember how I approached you on this subject? I said, stop. Whatever we're talking about stop. told me about you willing to talk about you said

Marcy Cowen: 9:36

he wanted to talk about it? I said, Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Because some some people are very hesitant. I understand why some people are hesitant. I've never been hesitant. For some reason. I really have in there. Kind of no reason. Like I'm going through what I was going through, you know, in my own way, and people didn't agree with it. Maybe they'd be like, well, you should be doing this. You should be doing that. No, don't tell me how to feel on telling me How to react to what I'm doing. Isn't it

Mike Failace: 10:01

great when outsiders tell you what you should be doing in your divorce? Every divorce is different. Every every divorce is different. Oh, you should do this. You should do. Well, I did this. I did that. Well shut your mouth. I'm doing what I'm doing.

Marcy Cowen: 10:12

Right you right? Maybe I would did that work for you? And if it did great, and if it didn't, that's okay, too. But like you said, every divorce is different.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:19

Especially somebody if you're speaking to somebody who has gone through a divorce, they they feel like they're going to interject, they have to interject. And I'm not doing it out of out of malice at all. They're trying to help you through a very difficult time because I'm sure they remembered how difficult it was for them. Although, I have seen some people who divorce was very difficult. I think I've I know two or three people that got divorce for like, $385.

Mike Failace: 10:43

Right. Let's see no signs all over like divorce three $90. Right.

Marcy Cowen: 10:47

Exactly. Yeah. Mine wasn't difficult for me other than financially. That's the only way that it was bad for me. emotionally, psychologically, all of that. I was happy as a lark. Be honest.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:59

We really want to before we get too deep into divorce, why don't you tell our audience a little bit about yourself?

Marcy Cowen: 11:05

My name is Marcy. I am the property manager. I think we got that. That's right. On the property manager over at three acres in Jersey City, which we were I met Mike,

Kevin Donaldson: 11:15

which we were just there on Sunday. Yes.

Mike Failace: 11:17

And without giving a shameless plug. fantastic place. I rarely, you'll give him

Marcy Cowen: 11:24

a tour of the building. Good.

Kevin Donaldson: 11:26

We met a bunch of different people met your artists, which I'm a big fan of art. Yes. Met your artist. He's got some amazing stuff. And Johnny yeah,

Mike Failace: 11:34

like I said, that place has ever you don't have to leave that building.

Marcy Cowen: 11:36

When and once the restaurant opens, we really won't have the restaurant bar everything will up

Mike Failace: 11:41

you know up on the roof and are a fantastic place. That is

Kevin Donaldson: 11:44

once I found out he was a Salvador Dali fan. That's what connected me and that was it. Yeah, because I have I have, you're gonna find that I have all this worthless, useless knowledge in my head. And here was my useless knowledge about Salvador Dali. Well, Salvador Dali died with no legitimate children had about an$80 million estate. And that 10 years after he died, somebody came out and said he was his daughter. Now they're trying to interact. They're an act of litigation to try to dig him up. To get DNA. We're going to ask him questions. I will get DNA to get DNA to see if this is his actual error. Because there's$80 million sitting there actually really interesting. Yeah. Again, how do I know that? I have no idea as me what Mike's birthday is? I don't know. I think it's a march I think my right, right.

Mike DePalma: 12:26

I just passed.

Kevin Donaldson: 12:28

You just passed. That's right. I did do that once.

Mike Failace: 12:30

Right. 6060 123?

Mike DePalma: 12:33

Nobody? That's about your

Mike Failace: 12:36

next question. Well, I

Mike DePalma: 12:37

gotta get back to three acres, though. It is it is a great place and the owners and you know, it's a family. They are fantastic people and what we just spoke about, about quitting, you know, the fun got out of my job. You know, the fun was gone as a cop. But now here, we have fun every day. We really do and I actually really enjoy it. I enjoy going to work every day. I enjoy you know, working together with Marcy and whomever else. Like it's even brought me back

Marcy Cowen: 13:10

to life. And honestly, I'm his favorite. Just so we're all clear.

Mike DePalma: 13:14

You all you all my favorite. The owners, the owners on my figure

Mike Failace: 13:17

is boss. That's about EDL a day. That's right.

Mike DePalma: 13:23

It's a great point. Like when we

Mike Failace: 13:25

met with Knobby, knobby Oh, yeah, he just seemed like he was having a lot of fun. Yeah, it looks like a great place to be in a great place to work.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:33

He was reading through it a lot. He would look at a Shem. Ship. Everybody does here.

Mike DePalma: 13:38

That's a whole ballgame guy.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:39

Yeah, that's definitely a hobo. He's a comp. But it's really beautiful. It's very peaceful. It's a you really don't have to go out of the, you know, establishment, right. You can be self encapsulated, which I don't know whether that's

Mike Failace: 13:54

Yeah, but I mean, during a couple of years ago, when people working from home stayed right there.

Marcy Cowen: 14:03

You know, a lot of people working from home, if you walk through our building, like on a work day, they're in the quiet room. They're in the common areas. They're in the community room there because there's free, there's Wi Fi there. So they're all working. There's a lot a fair amount of people still I was actually surprised to see that.

Mike DePalma: 14:17

Yeah, they they moved from space. I noticed that. I mean,

Mike Failace: 14:21

Mike does security from home, right.

Marcy Cowen: 14:25

It looks at those cameras. 24/7. He's on those cameras.

Kevin Donaldson: 14:28

You get the cameras on your phone.

Mike DePalma: 14:30

It's classified information. If I tell you no one has that. So Where'd you grow up?

Marcy Cowen: 14:36

I grew up in Livingston. And I got married. moved to Pennsylvania.

Kevin Donaldson: 14:42

How about we all know my mother in law? I don't want to you don't ask a woman Oh, geez. But you probably know my mother in law. Oh, really? Yeah. We should talk about that. Yeah, probably because it's was so you had you went face to face with Satan if he did?

Marcy Cowen: 14:58

Well, there you mean from Livingston. And there's kind of a few. I'm not your typical Livingston girl. Let's be clear on that.

Kevin Donaldson: 15:05

So you went with Chris Christie and Jason Alexander

Marcy Cowen: 15:09

and Jason Alexander is older than me, but he went to my high school. Yeah, yeah. No, it's

Kevin Donaldson: 15:12

not his real name. I know that, right? Yeah. But so I was I was, they're a little older than me. I worked in Roseland. Okay. So I was right next door and Sure. We always went to the southern Lebanon Midnight's down on Livingston Avenue, of course, and panics, towing, of course, which that's right, Teddy. Panic just passed. Oh, really? He just passed. He did our towing for years.

Marcy Cowen: 15:32

Everybody wants to panics. Of course.

Kevin Donaldson: 15:34

We all did, too. Yeah, it was great. But Livingston, Livingston was a great so you had yet to two groups in Livingston. It was an interesting yeah, Jewish and Italian.

Marcy Cowen: 15:44

That was it. Pretty much that was it. It's not like that now.

Kevin Donaldson: 15:47

No, it's not. No, it's not. But the houses were also going from crazy amounts of money. Like they bought my my wife's grandmother's house. I think they paid like 600,000 for it and knocked it down. But what they're doing out all over the place. Now. So I think it's 1.2 or $1.3 million.

Marcy Cowen: 16:05

Probably have like five inches of grass. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:08

It's not a huge lot. Right? It was only an extended by level on there before so it's not a huge lot. But you know, it's in a good section. So, but how'd you like grown up in Livingston?

Marcy Cowen: 16:19

I I liked it. I didn't know any different. Right? Because I was there. I mean, I grew up there and then I went to college. Livingston High School where your Lancer? Yeah, so I was a Lancer. When we went high school in Livingston. You could have went to a Catholic school up that way. That's true. But I'm not Catholic. So I

Kevin Donaldson: 16:35

wasn't Catholic either. I went to

Mike Failace: 16:36

Catholic high school so you didn't have to be Catholic to go to God. That's true. Actually.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:40

I went to Catholic High School with Are you Jewish? I am okay. I went to Catholic high school with a lot of Jewish people.

Marcy Cowen: 16:45

Yeah, a lot of them. I have very good friends from Pennsylvania whose kids all went to like a Catholic, you know, Episcopalian school, I think or something. Right?

Mike Failace: 16:52

Jesuit. What St. Peter's prep is a Jesuit school.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:56

That's Jesuit and yeah, I see. I knew some Jesuit priest. I didn't know him, waiting for the worthless now. Okay, Jesuit priest. I'm just staying silent again. Jesuit priests took me away from my faith.

Mike DePalma: 17:07

I went to Hudson Catholic High School, St. Peter's College. I got it, Peter,

Mike Failace: 17:11

St. Peter's College

Kevin Donaldson: 17:12

that's at round bread. versity

Mike Failace: 17:14

St. Peter's

Mike DePalma: 17:16

education, see how he does college is Greek. But my education comes from the streets. That's where I'm most

Mike Failace: 17:25

education comes from the suffering podcast.

Kevin Donaldson: 17:29

I think you should get a refund on that education. But that's not right. So from college, when

Marcy Cowen: 17:37

I went to college in DC, then I moved back home when I graduated college, Catholic University Catholic, a Catholic University. That's right. I'm not too far away. I went to American University. Okay. So I moved back home, I had a job and I was dating my now ex husband at the time we met in college. So it was the long distance thing he was in family business. So when we got married, I moved to Philly. You know, I I was on the fence about moving to Philly, but I was ready to get out Livingston at that time. Or

Kevin Donaldson: 18:09

to Phil used to be nice. What parts of Phil used to be nice. Yeah,

Marcy Cowen: 18:12

there's still some parts that are decent. So I moved there. And you know, we got married and had our children.

Kevin Donaldson: 18:20

You were young when you got married? I was 25. Okay. Not too young.

Marcy Cowen: 18:24

I young and stupid. As I say. It seemed like a good idea at the time. There are lots of reasons why I shouldn't have gotten married to him. Okay, not shouldn't have gotten married but shouldn't have gotten married to him.

Kevin Donaldson: 18:35

So when you meet this guy, you obviously fall in love with this guy or what you think is love? Okay, well, better said. Okay. What do you think is love? What did you What was your concept of love when you met your ex husband?

Marcy Cowen: 18:49

I had no idea. Okay. No, I, it seemed like a good idea at the time. We have two groups of friends. Well, did

Kevin Donaldson: 18:55

you base it on your parents marriage? Um,

Marcy Cowen: 18:58

I should have because, you know, my parents were married 50 something years. And still in love, still happy? You know?

Mike Failace: 19:08

The people make me sick.

Marcy Cowen: 19:12

So, I, I didn't know what love was, is how, listen hindsight. 2020 I'm sure you guys experienced that too. Right. So you realize a lot of things. When you get divorced about the marriage, all the red flags and there were tons you know, we two sets of friends one set, they got married when I did. And then there was another set they got married like five or six years later.

Kevin Donaldson: 19:33

Well, the funny thing about marriage is it's it's an institution that this the current statistic is 50% of all marriages will end in divorce. And as you get older that statistic drops. You know, that's a general statistic. But if I was sitting down at a blackjack table, and I know that I had a 50% chance of losing a bet. You know, you might think twice about making that bet you probably still make the bet. Right, you know, but then you put a little bit more thought into it. But you know, you're young and you're idealistic.

Marcy Cowen: 20:05

You just, I mean, it didn't I never dated anybody else I had dated, he was the only one. I mean, like in high school, we went out as groups. We never people. I mean, a couple of people had boyfriends and girlfriends.

Mike Failace: 20:16

So this is like a first boyfriend, like, sort of relationship thing?

Marcy Cowen: 20:19

I yeah, I would say, I would say it was. I mean, you know, there was obviously people before that, but I wouldn't call it a relationship, quote, unquote. You know, it was like the first thing and I ended up, you know, giving him an ultimatum, which was kind of interesting. Relief. Well, yeah. Like, I like, we're going to do this now. Or I'm moving on. So we'll see how it ended up. Right. So, you know, so I, we, so we met in college, I moved back to Jersey. He was back in Philly, and family business. So here's Red flag number one.

Kevin Donaldson: 20:52

Well, what was the initial thing that attracted you to him?

Marcy Cowen: 20:54

Um, I mean, I thought he was handsome. He was Jewish, which is something I was looking for. She seemed fun. He, you know, came from what I thought was a decent family. I don't know, like, how many factors do you really look that far into it? There's no checklist

Mike Failace: 21:10

for marriage, you know, maybe good looking Jewish. Good family. But

Marcy Cowen: 21:17

my standards now have changed.

Mike Failace: 21:20

Because you hang out with Michael, change a lot.

Kevin Donaldson: 21:22

So I'm interested in the Jewish thing, because I hear this. I hear this across the board, not just with Jewish people I'm interested in why the Jewish things, because of the children I grew up around, a lot of parents and Italian parents always wanted their Italian children to marry Italian women or Italian men. And, you know, it never. It's never what they expected. You know? And what's the what was the you said? Because of the children because of the?

Marcy Cowen: 21:48

Well, right? Because it's so in the Jewish religion, the mother's Jewish, so the children are automatically Jewish. But you know, you want the Jewish customs, if it depending on how religious you are, I mean, I practice things, but I'm not super religious. But you want to do all the holidays and everything else with both families. So if it's a different religion, then you know, there's enough problems in marriage as it is right that you can encounter without even having the religious difference. So if you have the religious religion, fighting, exactly, so you're already starting, you know, with problems with like, what, well, what are we going to do with the kids so they can celebrate everything? There are people that do that I was not okay with that. I was not okay to have a Christmas tree in my house. I'm Jewish. I grew up Jewish, you know. So, I mean, was that the most important thing? No, if he were not Jewish, and I fell in love with him, would I have married him? Probably, I don't know how thrilled my parents would have been. But, you know, I may have I don't know. I mean, now, it doesn't matter. I could care less if someone's Jewish or not.

Kevin Donaldson: 22:47

But it's you know, it's as time moves on, you become a little bit wiser because I've told this before here, my family is in this country because of religion. You know, my great grandfather was Methodist, my great grandmother was Catholic. And in Ireland, it didn't do that. That was bad. So they emigrated. They got married. And they did their thing. And through. So the old man dies, really, when some of the kids were super, super young. So anybody that was 12, and under, they were switched to Catholic, the ones that were older, were still Protestant. And, you know, that was never ever discussed at family gatherings. Never politics, a different story. God, politics was awful. But But religion was never brought up because they knew it was a sore subject. With, especially with with their parents, the the their children. They never they never, it was never a conflict. Right. So

Marcy Cowen: 23:42

what it's a conflict and lots of Jewish families. I mean, some my guests don't care. I mean, everyone I've been surrounded by in my whole family, they care. I mean, I have a cousin who married someone not Jewish. He's the favorite cousin in the family. So, you know, it was it was important to me all those years ago. I mean, I you know, and I was really more attracted to Jewish guys.

Kevin Donaldson: 24:02

You want to hear a real funny Jewish story. So I'm gonna tell you a real funny Jewish story. So one of the one of the my wife's cousin's married a Jewish guy who ends up being a rabbi, really good friend of mine. Okay, super good friend of mine, great guy. And my wife and I, at the time were weren't very religious. And so we wanted him to marry us. Now her 88 year old Italian Catholic, Roman Catholic grandmother thought she's like, she started crying. And this is somebody that's in the Family Start Christ. You're gonna

Marcy Cowen: 24:35

Oh my god, really?

Kevin Donaldson: 24:36

I swear, I swear to God,

Mike Failace: 24:38

and we ended up singing dreidel, dreidel, dreidel.

Kevin Donaldson: 24:42

I mean, it's not like we're gonna be crushing the glass and like I am. It's, but but that's what she thought. And that's the archaic way of thinking of the older generation. Absolutely. That, you know, but neither here nor there. So that was the first thing.

Mike Failace: 24:57

Is it archaic, or is it ignorance. Now Jamie,

Kevin Donaldson: 25:00

I think it's ignorance, lack of education. Yeah,

Mike Failace: 25:02

exactly. Lack of education. People don't open themselves other religions. They only think that you know, I'm Catholic. Everybody shouldn't be Catholic

Marcy Cowen: 25:08

that that generation is very different. Yeah. Well,

Kevin Donaldson: 25:10

Catholic school Catholics used to think that if if you were anything but Catholic, you didn't believe in Jesus. So

Mike DePalma: 25:16

I can definitely relate. What you're talking about. My ex was Jewish, and I am kept. She still is Jewish. No, no, she's still I consider her. I'm not going to comment. I need to refer to someone I know.

Kevin Donaldson: 25:31

So one of my good, one of my good friends, I told my is, is a pastor. He's the head of every nation starts. He's he's a Christian pastor, who was raised Jewish, believe it or not, there's Ron Lewis. He was raised Jewish, and converted and everything, but I told him this story, and this is the truth. My father, I was messing around with my father when they I said, you know, Jesus was a Jew. And you're a carpenter. And he goes, he goes, No, he wasn't. He was Christian. I could what? What did she just say? Isn't Joe, what are you talking about? But anyway, so what else? What else did you find attractive about him? Did you have a certain personality that that drew you in? Or was it just says

Marcy Cowen: 26:10

he was funny? Yeah. I mean, you know, it seemed like a good wholehearted guy. I mean, I've since learned later, that's not the case. But he said, he listened, it seemed like a good idea at the time is what I kind of always say, because, you know, the first group was getting married. And, you know, I knew I eventually wanted to get married and have children, it was very, very important to me to have children. Like I knew I'm very maternal. Mike can tell you that. You know, I'm very maternal. I wanted to have kids. And it seemed like this was the natural progression. So we've been dating for, you know, a couple years in college. And then we were long distance, we figured if we could, I was supposed to move to Philly, when we got engaged. Red flag number one I didn't. Then we got married,

Mike Failace: 26:54

I moved to move there. Because, like, trepidation,

Marcy Cowen: 26:58

I did not move there. Because I just didn't feel like it. I was busy having fun with my friends in New York. And you know, all my most of my friends lived, graduated from college and moved into the city. So I was busy, you know, galavanting with them like any 20. Something does. And which leads me to you know, he was my ex husband was working every other Saturday, he was in family business. So you would think every other Saturday that he was working, or that he wasn't working, that I'd be running to Philly to see him or he'd be running to me to see me. And I was not running to Philly. And I felt you know, there were times where like I planned with my friends to go into the city. And it's like, so that was another red flag. Red flag. Yeah, it's absolutely. So lots of the red flags have emerged since you know, I've been divorced. But

Mike Failace: 27:46

you don't realize that when you're going through? No, not at all. No, you

Kevin Donaldson: 27:50

got blinders on.

Marcy Cowen: 27:50

I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. I'm like, Look, I you know, my friends are gonna be in the city. That's where I want to be.

Kevin Donaldson: 27:56

You You think that things are going because you're looking for this missing piece? We all are. We're looking for that missing piece of the puzzle in our lives. Right and you seem to find it or what you think you found it, you end up getting married. The wedding had to be fun. I've seen Wedding Crashers even even when it's bad. It's good.

Marcy Cowen: 28:12

My wedding was spectacular. I will tell you, it was amazing.

Kevin Donaldson: 28:17

I always like the Jewish wedding with the breaking of the glass because what it symbolizes May your marriage lasts as long as it takes to put the pieces of the glass back together. Your Glass wasn't wasn't broken, broken glass. But I've also seen the glass go through people's shoes, right? Oh, yeah, that's that's a good one. But so was the food any good? If it was delicious. So Jewish weddings I've been to. I've been to several level because

Marcy Cowen: 28:45

they were kosher. Mine was not kosher. Oh, the food is awful.

Mike Failace: 28:47

Lots of lots of balls get built the fish.

Marcy Cowen: 28:50

Right. Well, that goes on. It's kosher. It's typically not that great. Mine was kosher style. So we had no shellfish. Oh, but it was not kosher. Yeah, I

Kevin Donaldson: 28:59

think I eat hollow bread. That's that's all i That's all I remember because the rest of it was like, looks like Alpo or so.

Marcy Cowen: 29:06

It was at headquarters Plaza in Morristown. Oh, very nice. Yeah, it was very nice.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:09

So then with the wedding got boring. Go watch a movie. Right. There you go. bougie. So you have your children Livingston.

Marcy Cowen: 29:16

Thank you. Sorry.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:18

So you had your children? Did you? Did you wait to have children? Did you enjoy your marriage a little bit? Or did you jump right into having children?

Marcy Cowen: 29:26

We were married for I guess three. I had everything very scheduled. I knew exactly. When I wanted to have kids. I knew how far apart I wanted them. And I got both of those things. So we were I guess three years we were married. We were married. But he was working all the time. And this is in Philly. This is in Philly. Yeah. I thought that was normal. There's a lot that went on in our marriage. That was wrong. Again, in hindsight, that I thought was normal. I was right. Give me an example. He was working every weekend.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:57

Okay, was that indicative of something or was he a workaholic? I

Mike Failace: 30:00

was gonna say, was he actually working or just all yours? Well, he

Marcy Cowen: 30:02

was in the family business and he didn't want to turn his father down. He was working with his father. And he didn't want to say like, No, we couldn't, you know, he, he was just doing that thinking he's building a future for us. So, so that was that. There was I don't remember. I think the first year, I would say I enjoyed. And after that, I don't remember like, I don't remember. liking it, hating it. Being so happy with him being miserable. I don't remember any of it.

Kevin Donaldson: 30:32

Well, what was one thing that really got under your skin?

Mike Failace: 30:34

His third chin?

Kevin Donaldson: 30:41

I can't.

Mike DePalma: 30:42

I'm trying so hard not to say anything in reference to this subject. I'm really serious. I'm really

Kevin Donaldson: 30:51

just coming in from this.

Mike DePalma: 30:54

Hey, I'm here. What is it? Yo,

Mike Failace: 30:56

can you move like you put them in different spots?

Kevin Donaldson: 30:59

What was one thing that really like the first thing that really got under your skin? It

Marcy Cowen: 31:04

was a horrible communicator. He was like a wet blanket. Like he didn't he didn't talk about anything. He didn't talk about how he's feeling about anything and and talk about what he wanted to do where you wanted to go and

Kevin Donaldson: 31:14

see that that's a big female versus male thing. Like sometimes, yeah, women always want to communicate, and sometimes we just can't I just want to shut I'm not defending him. Listen,

Mike Failace: 31:25

I don't know. Sometimes I don't

Mike DePalma: 31:28

want to I don't want that differentiation. I just want

Marcy Cowen: 31:31

some time. It's not the conversation. I'm talking about having like a normal conversation. Like, you know what, where do you want to go for dinner this weekend? I don't know. Like, you know, this is your town. You figure it out

Kevin Donaldson: 31:41

the worst conversation? Ever. What do you want to go eat? I don't care wherever you want to go. Well, how about tacos? No, I don't want that.

Mike Failace: 31:49

Listen, if the five of us were gonna go out to grab something to eat tonight. We'd sit here for 20 minutes say where you want to go?

Kevin Donaldson: 31:53

Now we go to Grand saloon real simple. Grants and lo 940. Van clips and starving. Yeah. Since starving style. Yes.

Mike Failace: 32:01

No, I know our nap.

Kevin Donaldson: 32:02

I'm starving.

Mike DePalma: 32:08

I can multitask.

Kevin Donaldson: 32:09

So bad, bad communicator.

Marcy Cowen: 32:11

He was horrible communicator. Correct.

Kevin Donaldson: 32:13

And Was there ever any any infidelity or any abuse or anything like that?

Marcy Cowen: 32:19

There was not. I was accused of infidelity. And he went to great lengths to try to prove that and he felt okay. So

Kevin Donaldson: 32:28

will you use you sounds like with all with the scheduling you had you you held that institution of marriage very sacred.

Marcy Cowen: 32:36

I did. I mean, I wanted to be married. And again, I realized, like, no, almost all of it. I realized after the fact and I'm like, Oh, my God. And remember that like when he was doing this? Or he was doing that? I'm like, Why didn't I see it? And I think it was because probably because I didn't want to see it. Believe it?

Mike Failace: 32:56

Were you working? Working through your marriage?

Marcy Cowen: 32:59

I was not. So I worked for a little bit in the beginning when we were married. And then we bought a house. Which is where we had both of our children. I was working a little bit here and there. And then when I had the kids, I know I was not working. I would stay at home mom.

Mike Failace: 33:13

I think a mother should stay at home or raise their kids anyway. I don't

Marcy Cowen: 33:17

listen to you know, when it's the hardest job I've ever had. I'll be honest with you.

Kevin Donaldson: 33:21

Why don't you just say if if your wife has a broken leg, the sandwich makers broken. God, man, and that isn't

Mike Failace: 33:27

just say no stay at home. Mom, I I would rather have nobody raise my kids but their mother. Well, that's, that's the thing.

Marcy Cowen: 33:33

I mean, I kind of agree with that. And when my younger went to preschool, oh, no, when he went to elementary school, I wanted to go back to work. I was like, let me just do something part time. You know, I felt you know, if I want to buy something for myself, I shouldn't feel guilty. Which I did sometimes, like if I wanted to buy something. I'm like, You know what, I'm not contributing. I don't know, you stay home and take care of the kids.

Kevin Donaldson: 33:54

Well, that that was the choice with my wife. And I like when we when we decided to have children. A discussion was had, it's okay, here's how we could some some mothers don't want to stay home with their kids. Some others, they would rather go work. And I told her I said, Okay, so if you want to go work, and this is what you need, I'll make it work. We'll make it work with the kids as far as daycare or whatever it is. But ultimately, we sat down and looked at the numbers her salary would be going to pay for

Marcy Cowen: 34:20

the kids daycare all day. Yeah, exactly. So it's a wash. So what's the point

Kevin Donaldson: 34:24

and somebody else is raising your kids, right? So I broke my ass. So she could raise the kids until they were old enough to go to school. And she started to get back to

Mike Failace: 34:33

I mean, if anything, if they wanted to work, it's peace of mind for him to get them out of the house. You know, right? Because I mean, how many times did you go to work and you go home and your kids are there and your wife says here and I've been home with the kids all day here. Yeah, that's right, because they needed a break. Right?

Kevin Donaldson: 34:46

And it's sure that is a hard, hard job.

Marcy Cowen: 34:50

It's a very hard job. But it was the best job I ever had. I'll tell you that. I don't have one regret for one second about having my kids staying home.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:00

was messy diapers? I'm done with them. Got it?

Marcy Cowen: 35:04

Oh, no, they didn't I guess could die. Maybe when you're a mother it doesn't bother you. I don't know the

Mike Failace: 35:08

first one to change both of my kids diaper. So it

Kevin Donaldson: 35:11

was I and I didn't mind it at all. I didn't do too many to the poopy diapers. Now

Mike DePalma: 35:17

I thought I was into the I mean, I did but

Mike Failace: 35:19

I'd still take like the I still take the like the truck of putting.

Mike DePalma: 35:24

Everybody has this stereotypical thing that men don't want to do that. You know, I didn't. I dove right in headfirst. Not so much that.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:37

You keep your hair back. Yeah, no. So when did when did it start? When did you start to see it going really downhill? How old were the kids?

Marcy Cowen: 35:48

So we separated when they were nine and 12. Tough

Kevin Donaldson: 35:52

lives living separately living or in the same house? No,

Marcy Cowen: 35:55

we were living in the same house. He I mean, listen, I'll be completely honest. He thought I was cheating on him. Tried to prove it in lots of different ways. And because in Pennsylvania, I don't know if it's the same in New Jersey. So I represented myself in my own divorce. is amazing in Pennsylvania. Yeah, it was a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. So we've talked about this a lot before. I'll be like, Oh, you're not gonna believe you know, here's something that happened to me.

Mike DePalma: 36:25

Was that you talked to a friend of mine, I

Marcy Cowen: 36:27

did talk to your friend. Sorry.

Mike Failace: 36:32

Let me guess it was from Hoboken. That's

Marcy Cowen: 36:35

what he did security or building. That's funny. It was just so in pencil, so he tried if you get, he wouldn't have gotten how to pay me as much in alimony or spousal support, it starts that he wouldn't have to pay me as much if he could prove adultery,

Kevin Donaldson: 36:53

adultery. And what what made him think that you were an adulterer,

Marcy Cowen: 36:56

because I was doing things that were inappropriate. Okay. I did not cheat on him. I did not do what he told people I was doing. I mean, I don't know how blatant you want me to get

Kevin Donaldson: 37:06

as much as you feel comfortable with. Let's put it that way. All right.

Marcy Cowen: 37:09

So he told people, everybody, all of our friends, including my parents, that I was giving guys blow jobs and cars, and that I was sleeping with them in cars. And I was just like, meeting them randomly and doing that should have

Mike DePalma: 37:22

asked for money. What was that with? You know, his objective.

Marcy Cowen: 37:26

He was doing that because he's a narcissist. And he, I mean, a certifiable narcissist. I know a lot of people throw that term out, like all the time. I actually did a lot of research on it. And I've spoken to people about it. And there's 12 characteristics of a narcissist. He has nine with a possible 10. So that's enough for me. Did he have any he's the victim he was that's what it was all about. He was he was trying to prove to everybody that he was the victim and I was awful. And I was the what was me syndrome that was well, he's eight, the king of the world was me syndrome.

Kevin Donaldson: 38:00

Believe me, I went through it. Did he have any trauma as a child?

Marcy Cowen: 38:04

I don't know. I have no idea. Because

Kevin Donaldson: 38:07

the majority it happens more frequently than not. Narcissism comes from trauma. And again, I'm not excusing his behavior whatsoever, but narcissism usually comes from from trauma because it's a defense mechanism. Where that's how you have to make the world around you make sense? By relating everything to you like

Marcy Cowen: 38:27

and that you're always the victim. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Take care of

Mike DePalma: 38:37

don't just don't poke the bear please. Just good keep poking. I'm gonna want to have been caught on like Friday or something.

Marcy Cowen: 38:42

No, you're not Mike stop.

Kevin Donaldson: 38:46

Now we've we wouldn't allow it we would allow your your the color commentary. No,

Mike DePalma: 38:50

you know what, though? I have to like interject. Yeah, I really think it's fantastic that you are speaking about it, you know, and I know a lot of people were kind of talking, you know, code here, but I, I pretty much, you know, I went through a lot of similar stuff that mostly went through and we online is so impactful. You know, I I actually hesitate or not fear but speaking about what I want to speak about. So your gun show series, I really am you know, it's very, it's, it's, it's a very, very rough situation, and you're also

Marcy Cowen: 39:30

in a very different stage than I'm sure. I've gone through, you know,

Mike DePalma: 39:34

and a lot of times, like, even when I do come on here, I hope I hold back on so much and that's so impactful in my life, you know, it's anything I say or do or it's, it's incredible. You know,

Kevin Donaldson: 39:52

you have to be careful you're especially in in a divorce or separation setting, that you don't overstep your bounds because you don't want to you don't Don't want to interject something that's going to give more fuel to the other part and not

Mike DePalma: 40:03

to take away from, you know what you went through. But my, what I went through and my story in regards to this is, you know, it could be two or three shows, and I'm not even using the Hoboken stretch like it's, it's pretty, it's financially crippling, it's emotionally crippling. And when I tell you apart, I when it comes to, you know, the courts and lawyers, and it's the so much,

Kevin Donaldson: 40:31

I don't know how it is in Pennsylvania, but I do know, in New Jersey, it's very slanted against the men, it really is.

Mike DePalma: 40:41

And 195%, and another

Marcy Cowen: 40:44

slated against the Americans. In Pennsylvania, it's more it's more equal

Mike Failace: 40:48

divorce laws in New Jersey are women's laws and domestic laws, right? Women's laws. And

Mike DePalma: 40:54

then this is this, these things were specifically told to me by, you know, lawyers and so forth. And the reason why I never really speak or never really come out is the love of my kids. But you know, what, I, you know, more than myself,

Kevin Donaldson: 41:09

you know what the sad part is, it's it muddies the water between right and wrong, you know, if the man is wrong in the divorce, okay? It should be heavier, you know, they should have murdered a man a little bit if the woman is wrong and divorced. You know, it's, it's right or wrong. It's not what gender you are. Usually both are wrong. In some, in some respect. It's true.

Marcy Cowen: 41:34

Both people have done stuff wrong. I mean, I admitted I did stuff that was wrong. You know, and I mean, I did stuff that, you know, probably could have impacted me worse than it did, but I was able to,

Mike Failace: 41:44

was that the car thing you were talking about before?

Kevin Donaldson: 41:49

But you're always fearful of your kids. Have kids hearing that damaging line? Well,

Marcy Cowen: 41:53

that's the whole thing. And my ex husband told my kids a lot of things that he should have.

Kevin Donaldson: 41:59

Well, that's their wells, a weaponized kid. Yes. Correct. Which is

Mike DePalma: 42:03

something I never did,

Marcy Cowen: 42:05

which is the one No, you didn't thank God for that. I never take seven out of my mouth. Thank you. Exactly. That's exactly right.

Kevin Donaldson: 42:13

You know, though, when you're fighting a battle, though, if you've ever been in a real street fight, no, I can say I have not been in plenty of street fights yourself. I'm living. Now I'll let something out on this show. When I'm in a street fight. I'm a ball grabber. grab, grab somebody's balls, and I'll hold on to them as tight as I can. Alright, so when my teeth if I have to leash on Pete, I fight, I'll fight dirty homeboy. And a lot of it and I'm relating this a lot of it goes towards divorce to people who are very hurt, who are who are just their lives are scrambled around their, the hurricane themselves, and they're doing anything they can to survive to win. And for that.

Mike DePalma: 43:03

It's not even about it's not even about that and what we discussed before. You know, there's two things that, you know, at this point in my life, you know, there's two things. I was just involved in some other thing dealing with courts and like, whatever it was, and there's one thing I said, you know, this is all my fault. It really is. So I picked her see. Oh,

Mike Failace: 43:29

no, no, no, no. That's the thing that gets me about divorce though. My knees are twos. These are the two

Mike DePalma: 43:36

people know how I am. I'm honest. I'm open like,

Mike Failace: 43:39

these are two people who love each other enough at one point that you

Mike DePalma: 43:43

listen, that's another show like that's these these I get

Marcy Cowen: 43:48

each other, but anything other than that's the collateral? said no,

Mike DePalma: 43:52

I cut my my cast off that day, that could have been totally different. So that was that's collateral. So that's the

Kevin Donaldson: 43:57

collateral damage of divorce. You become very self deprecating. Like, you're the king itself. Yeah, look that one up. Self deprecating, deprecating. Right, right there. Write that down.

Mike Failace: 44:08

Kevin, at the end of the thing that we learned today, Mike doesn't know what self deprecating means. No, I

Mike DePalma: 44:12

get I get it. Listen, you

Marcy Cowen: 44:15

there's also the self sabotage.

Kevin Donaldson: 44:16

Yeah. Right. Because you don't deserve anything good. He I know

Mike DePalma: 44:20

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I'm to that point in this. It's, it's going on like, what is it but 2014 15 It's going on like six years. And then it turns out, I'm just like, Listen, I'm done. Go live your life. Just that's

Kevin Donaldson: 44:36

you at some point you become you become very introspective. And you look inside yourself like what did I do wrong? What is wrong with me that this is happening? Because that's true. I hate to tell you at some point in your divorce and I know what happened to you at some point you become a narcissist because you think everything relates to you, when in reality probably wasn't the right person for you in the beginning. like you lost something you just was never there. In a way these

Marcy Cowen: 45:03

boys and I believe that's true. I don't think I should have married him to begin with. Right, great.

Mike Failace: 45:09

So you but now how long were you married though? 15 years?

Mike DePalma: 45:12

Wow, that was my 15 minutes. And how much 15 minutes I was I was

Mike Failace: 45:18

married for 25 years. Well, I've been

Marcy Cowen: 45:20

divorced almost as long as I was married Almost.

Kevin Donaldson: 45:24

Almost. You have that hindsight, though, which is now you can see everything from the top of the battlefield.

Marcy Cowen: 45:30

Crystal clear. All right. I mean, and I've evolved since I first divorce right? I mean, things were

Kevin Donaldson: 45:36

messy. So how messy did the divorce get?

Marcy Cowen: 45:39

Oh my god, we record every five minutes for any it did I if I owed $100 for the dentist, and I didn't pay it because I couldn't afford it because I wasn't working. Uh, he left me with nothing. He caught me off of his income, took my car with my children. I had my children with me. He went to live with mommy and daddy for a year. had to pay no bills or anything. And I mean, I What was I going to do? My father had a cosign for a car for me, because his credit was horrible in the beginning. He was it was bad when we got married. And it got worse as time went on, because he made some really bad business decisions, which again is probably another show. And I, I knew it but I didn't know it.

Kevin Donaldson: 46:22

As as half a joke. I tell people who are getting married, I said, Did you check your credit? Because you inherit it?

Marcy Cowen: 46:28

Right? Because it's gonna go down probably so right if it's bad now forget it. Yeah. So I mean, my credit. So my credit was excellent. When we got married. And then, you know, once we got divorced, that's it. I mean, we had a ton of debt, which of course he blames on me. We are upside down in the house. So which, of course he blamed on me. We shouldn't have bought that. Or we bought a big house on an acre with a pool. It was a beautiful house, we renovated the entire thing. And you know, he blamed it all on me. told my parents that Well, I bought the house for her. Really? Are you not living here with our children? Like what do you mean, you bought it for me? Yeah, exactly. Where was easily been car it should have been sleeping in the car. So many probably still be married, if it was so many

Mike DePalma: 47:09

similarities. And it's Yeah. I mean, it's like,

Mike Failace: 47:14

every divorce is different. But they're all similar. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 47:18

Similar it to people who hate each other. That's what it comes down to fighting

Mike Failace: 47:22

for every last penny. Now,

Marcy Cowen: 47:24

you would drag me into court ever, he would literally. So we were. We both started off with attorneys. I had mine for three months. And we ended up going to court on one particular day. He had filed contempt. Because I stopped paying the mortgage. That was a reason I stopped paying the mortgage because I called the mortgage company and I said, Listen, I want to go through shorts out, what do I need to do? You need to stop paying the mortgage for three months straight, in order to even be considered for us to accept any offers. So that's what I did.

Mike DePalma: 47:54

It's so like different worlds. But when I tell you, it's when we speak. It's like my tribe. You know, it's amazing, you know, like she said about the you know, the$100 for, you know, insurance, whatever it is, I had to go to court because I had a shirt on 49 plus one with a middle finger.

Mike Failace: 48:11

So that's Mickey Mouse in the middle, and a Mickey Mouse. Oh,

Marcy Cowen: 48:14

Mickey Mouse thing, please. Let's now

Mike DePalma: 48:18

well, you know what, though, in essence to that, that's, that was years ago, and I'm still there's still motions and masquerades of motions about that like that. These lawyers they make it out to be like, I'm like the Iceman Klinsky. You know, like, it's getting ridiculous now like Ted Kaczynski. Richard, okay. Now the hurricanes coming out. Now you're gonna get the best of me. So let's get back to

Kevin Donaldson: 48:43

but at some point, the divorce got

Marcy Cowen: 48:45

into court is one particular time this is when we got rid of our attorneys. So he was he was basically filing constantly with all kinds of money stuff, knowing full well that I couldn't afford this stuff for the kids. I mean, he made it seem like I was out buying fur coats every five minutes which

Kevin Donaldson: 48:59

tactic tactical that he did, right? I all of it.

Marcy Cowen: 49:03

I mean, we both had attorneys, this particular case, we get into court, and my attorney says to me, you know, you're in contempt. And I said, Well, okay, I said, Yeah, what does that mean? I knew nothing. At this point. I didn't know about divorce. I knew nothing about it. Like Mike, like nobody in my family had ever been divorced. I knew nothing about it. So I had to educate myself to represent myself, but we get into court. And he says, Well, what should I do? He says, Well, you know, they can This is my attorney. You know, they can throw you into jail. So who should I call? I said you should call my father who's an attorney. And you may want to call my cousin who's a circuit court judge. They can probably help. Isn't it your job to not have me put in jail? Like exactly, oh, man, I thought I was going to lose that. So we go and of courts, the judges, like I'm not throwing the mother of children when she did what she was supposed to do. So nothing happened. It was basically like, you know, not even a slap on the wrist. It was kind of like why are you bringing this to my court and wasting our time?

Kevin Donaldson: 49:59

That's an attorney. Move. So they inundate you with stupid stuff. Yep. All right, keep coming back to court. Because if you're spending time on that, you're It's like a magic show. You know what a magician when he's doing a trick over here. He wants you to look over here, but he's really doing the trick over here. And that's my

Marcy Cowen: 50:14

father's an attorney did a lot of divorce. So on top of it, and he knew that in New Jersey, granted, not Pennsylvania where the laws are very different. So we've discovered, but I mean, at that point, we got rid of the attorney. So it got to the point where we were filing, we were filing each I only filed stuff in court when I really felt that I had to. He was filing for sport. I mean,

Kevin Donaldson: 50:35

how long did the divorce go on for?

Marcy Cowen: 50:39

Well, so it took three years from date of separation to when we are officially divorced. But you still fight in court over you still fight in court over everything.

Kevin Donaldson: 50:48

You got the kids, the kids at this point are what? We had swing custody at 12 and 15. No, they're nine and 12 will be separated. Yeah. So 12 1215, three years later.

Marcy Cowen: 51:01

No. So things started going south three years before that. But when we actually separated, yeah, data separation, and when you're fully divorced, it's the same thing. He's out of the house. And it's you know what I'm saying? So separate. It's laughs

Kevin Donaldson: 51:14

divorced, to celebration day.

Marcy Cowen: 51:17

Oh, I framed my divorce decree.

Kevin Donaldson: 51:20

So what did you do is still the

Marcy Cowen: 51:22

fighting going on?

Kevin Donaldson: 51:23

Was it with custody money, what

Marcy Cowen: 51:25

was it was custody it was money was however, he can try to screw me. I mean, it was any which way. It was mostly money stuff. There was a little bit of custody stuff because he was negligent with our children.

Kevin Donaldson: 51:37

That's the problem. That's the big problem I have with divorce is when the children start to become collateral damage.

Marcy Cowen: 51:44

Right? I mean, yeah, it's true. And I, you know, listen, they're bouncing back. And it's very hard for them. You know, my children were very resentful, and I don't blame them. There are now pretty much adults. I mean, they're 25 and 22. It took many, many years for them to sort of get it resentful towards both of you, or, sadly, just me. Because of the stuff that he was feeding film.

Mike Failace: 52:09

I assume. Believe me, I know you're talking. Yeah. So leave me I know, look, I

Marcy Cowen: 52:13

would never want to take away their father. But you know, when they were younger, and he was negligent, I ended up for about a year I got more custody, because I proved that he was negligent. And the goal

Mike DePalma: 52:24

of my ex is to take my children away. Well, it was you know, it was desensitized to this. Now, you know what I mean, in a sense, but the only thing you're never gonna stop the children, right? I mean, you're never going to stop fighting. No, we honestly, we don't. You'll never know.

Marcy Cowen: 52:40

No fighting for your children. Oh, me. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Mike DePalma: 52:43

You got that? Right. I know. I'm gonna tell you some. You got that. Right. You might as well just

Mike Failace: 52:48

know the after I know a guy who went through a divorce and hasn't talked to his kids and for years. Yeah.

Marcy Cowen: 52:54

I know the same guy. He hasn't talked to his kids or his kids haven't spoken to him, or both. kids haven't

Mike Failace: 52:59

spoken to him for years.

Kevin Donaldson: 53:00

It's a tragic situation. hate

Marcy Cowen: 53:02

that. That bothers me because they got poisoned it it that bothers me almost more.

Mike Failace: 53:07

I know. I know the guy very well and talk to them all diamond. And dog goes get

Marcy Cowen: 53:15

older. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so they have a mind of their own.

Kevin Donaldson: 53:19

And one day they're going to wake up. You know, and it seems like you're, it seems like your kids are waking up.

Marcy Cowen: 53:25

Yes. Okay. My kids have awoken. You know what, I think one day

Kevin Donaldson: 53:29

they're going to wake up and they're going to, it's almost going to be more damaging to them to go, Oh, my God, I was I was wrong about this. I read misread this whole situation when they become adults.

Marcy Cowen: 53:38

Well, I had that situation with my older son when I was still living in Pennsylvania. I had a whole conversation with him. And I said, Listen, you know, I can show you all this stuff. I still had all of my divorce paperwork for huge plastic bins of paperwork. I said, Do you want to go through the paperwork? Do you want to see what your father was doing? Like I you can see that some black and white from judges from masters from people in court. So he's like, he always said, No, I offered it many times. He finally said, Yes. I said, you do? And he said, Yeah, I said, Great. Come over for dinner next week, and I'm going to sort it all out. I'm going to pull out like the super important stuff, put it in date order. So you see when it started and when it ended. And you'll say they went through three quarters of it. And he's like, Oh, my God. I'm like,

Kevin Donaldson: 54:26

How long did it take you to get back on your feet after your divorce?

Marcy Cowen: 54:31

Financially or

Kevin Donaldson: 54:34

emotionally, emotionally, financially, emotionally, I

Marcy Cowen: 54:36

was fine the day after. I he left and he filed. One I would say literally like a week later I was I took the blow the initial blow, you know, took some time. But I would say a week later. I was like, Oh my God, thank God. Like now I can actually like be a person and be me and be myself and live your life. He didn't fight for our marriage. And that was another big part of it. Because when he had come to me when he thought I was cheating on him, and he approached me about it, and we talked about it, and then he decided he's leaving, like there was nothing in between. So did he really love me?

Kevin Donaldson: 55:14

I don't think he's ready to give something up that quickly, say, Let's go

Marcy Cowen: 55:18

to counseling. You know what, take me away for a weekend, let's figure out why we are in love in the first place. If we really were,

Mike Failace: 55:25

that could have been in like his excuse to get out of that maybe. Or maybe you want to get out. And so he drummed up some kind of story and said, That's why I'm gonna

Kevin Donaldson: 55:32

actually there are many stories about,

Marcy Cowen: 55:34

he had reason for the story, and I get it. But he didn't have been going through all the motions of putting a mobile GPS thing in my car, tracking the computer, hiring private investigator, to set me up, who I ended up boasting on, like, what that was, and then lied about, hmm, it was done to me. And then lied about having pictures of me kissing some guy. I'm like, Well, where are the pictures? It doesn't happen? No, of course not. Right?

Kevin Donaldson: 56:03

Did you ever hold any of the bad feelings you had about this divorce against your your? After dating effect? You know, somebody always pays the price. Somebody always does time for somebody else's Christ,

Marcy Cowen: 56:15

the trust issues? Yes, I saw that little note on the notes. Yeah, I definitely have trust issues. I mean, I think I've come I'm better now than I was. But I still have some trust issues. Because you know, you marry this person who says they're gonna love you forever, through thick and thin forever, you know, forever and ever. And then they decide that, you know, something goes wrong, and they decide just to walk out the door and not to, you know, marriage is hard. Relationships are hard. If you don't want to work on it, and you're just gonna bail and walk out the door. Like, why would I want to get involved with someone else? And deal with that? Again? I'm not saying it would happen again, I don't hold each guy. I don't say every guy is going to be like him? Absolutely. Not. When you're

Mike Failace: 56:57

almost like scarred from the divorce. And sure, like Kevin said, you may you know, someone's gonna pay for, you know, some people pay for other people's crimes, right? So I don't get to have those trusted.

Marcy Cowen: 57:08

I don't think that I don't think that other guys are necessarily going to be like him. In fact, every guy I've ever met has been nothing like,

Kevin Donaldson: 57:14

but if something rears its head with somebody else who you're in a dating relationship, even if it's untrue, even if it's only something that you see, you're gonna go, oh, oh,

Marcy Cowen: 57:24

I'm very quick to say, No, thank you. I am because I, I just I don't have the time or patience, you know, and I'm saying I really don't like I've become impatient with kind of dating and everything else. I mean, I've been divorced for 14 years.

Kevin Donaldson: 57:38

Have you ever come close to or ever thought about maybe going in again,

Marcy Cowen: 57:42

getting married again? You know, initially, I always said no. And then now I feel like if I was dating someone in a serious relationship, and they wanted to get married, and it was important to them, then I would do it. Or I would consider it I should say, Well, you know, it's not something I need,

Kevin Donaldson: 57:58

you know better than anybody marriage at its core bases thing is a legal contract between two people. All right, but it says nothing in there about love. It says nothing in there about fidelity or anything like that, though, all those things can be had without that bond. Oh, no, listen, I'm not a piece of paper. I'm not telling you not to get married. I'm not telling anybody not to get married. But think about, you know, if you need that contract, or you know, I'm old fashioned, where I believe that. If you're if you're planning on having children, it should be you call me a dinosaur and call me whatever you want. It should be a married, married mother and father. And I know

Mike Failace: 58:37

I was a virgin till I got married to Yeah,

Kevin Donaldson: 58:40

yeah. You're still a virgin? No, twice. One of them was with Mike.

Mike DePalma: 58:48

Just to get back. We will raise differently. You know, we were raised, you know to to get into marriage. You live your life you get into marriage. You have kids and it wasn't I didn't even know about divorce. I hadn't like as a kid you don't now it's different. You're you're raised and you're told to get married then you're gonna get divorced. That's just the way it is now. Right get married get divorce and like it's so easy heard of in my family. Crazy. Well, my parents are divorced. That's seminary results nowadays a toy you know what? Just get married get divorced. And you know, you get settlement you know, if it's a wealthy person that that's how, I don't

Kevin Donaldson: 59:22

know there is a sanctity to marriage that should be taken a little bit more serious than it is today.

Mike DePalma: 59:29

Yeah, I mean, I 100% argument and in effect, you would get married again. I would it affects everything even in my relationship. Now. i It does.

Marcy Cowen: 59:38

Let me just say 10 minutes ago, absolutely not never getting married again.

Mike DePalma: 59:41

That's just I'm being honest.

Mike Failace: 59:45

I was born in zero so I'm like the first time he's gonna get married.

Mike DePalma: 59:52

Going through what I'm going infects everything in a relationship. I'm in now. It's a it's very difficult and it's it's difficult to Be around me when, you know, in reference to that, you know, what this person it's instilled in, you know, old school and dedication and loyalty, you know, so 100% I would, but it's so difficult to make that next step when you have this continuing, you know,

Marcy Cowen: 1:00:15

well, it's a good distraction.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:00:16

Well, you also have to bring in a person, right? The person bring that into the new relationship.

Mike DePalma: 1:00:21

100% It's there, you know, I mean,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:00:24

I'm going through this, so you got baggage as well.

Mike DePalma: 1:00:27

100% I would, I would marry them with baggage, you know, for some reason, whatever it is, I want you know, it's just, it's every single thing I do. It's, you know, I'm uh, you know, it's robotic. Do it this way. The courts say do it this way. You can't do that this and you can't do that. You can't. I'm just like, it's ridiculous. It's almost like, exactly. Go live your life, you know? In may bring me back on this show. And I will sing and I will give you I will give you Yeah, see what you did to me. In May of 2020 23, bring me back in the show. I

Marcy Cowen: 1:01:04

guarantee. My what happens in May, says

Mike DePalma: 1:01:07

it's just things change, the hurricane finally passes through. Yeah, I finally, I finally pushed through all these, you know, courts and

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:17

SEMA gets involved and they start, they start getting I'm telling you, I

Mike DePalma: 1:01:21

will sing in May. I'll give you a divorce story, trust me.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:26

So what you know how, how is it giving you strength? Because I, I'm a big believer that anytime you're going through some sort of trauma or trial, or adversity, or suffering, or suffering, initially, you see it as a detriment to your personality. Initially, you see it as something that you don't put up on a pedestal, where now, you know, the damage that we've went through, I use that as my strength and I leave, I'll actually leave with that, you know, years I was I would tell people, I would never tell people. I'm retired police officer because I was in a shooting and I had to retire. But now I'm like, Oh, I'm a retired police officer. And they asked me well, you kind of young to retire. Well, yeah. Cuz I was in a police shooting. So I lead with it. You know, because it's my strength now. Do you ever see that as as? What? You went through a divorce?

Marcy Cowen: 1:02:12

Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely. I think it made me it actually upped my self esteem. I don't know how much self esteem I had when I was married. To tell you the truth, I don't really know. I don't kind of remember. I feel like it was such it was so long ago. What was it like a different lifetime? I don't remember the time that I was married. I remember having my children. I But beyond that, and when they were little and stuff we did with them when little but beyond that. I don't remember my marriage back then. Yes, I think I'm much stronger. I mean, I've always been relatively independent. But I'd much more independent now. And I feel like it's definitely made me stronger. It's made me more aware also, just of me and and what I can actually do. I you know, who I mean, the stories that I can tell you people, people come up to me all the time, not understanding how I'm not in an asylum. I'm not an alcoholic, or I'm not a drug addict. Because they're like, I don't understand how you go through all this, and you're not like committed and I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. And that's

Mike DePalma: 1:03:12

powerful. She is honestly, the respect is that she's very powerful. She's very independent. I mean, I see it and the way she speaks and you know, I don't know, it's, I gotta give him a lot of credit. I'm serious. I'm not, you know, it's, it's not easy to do this.

Mike Failace: 1:03:29

It's his boss.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:30

I know. And you know,

Mike Failace: 1:03:33

let them talk to me and you will talk. So Kev, what do you think about

Mike DePalma: 1:03:36

so mad? You're upset that I have a bigger picture than you.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:43

If you saw somebody in your life or in your circle, heading down the path of divorce, from what you've learned, what do you think you'd tell him?

Marcy Cowen: 1:03:52

Well, a lot of things.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:54

Would you would you tell them not to get married?

Marcy Cowen: 1:03:58

I'm not I've always said even after I got divorced, I'm not an advocate of divorce. I'm just not

Mike Failace: 1:04:05

getting married you. You do what you want.

Marcy Cowen: 1:04:08

That's right. Right. You know, I think I think every marriage is different also. But if you're not being loved, and you're not being supported, and you're not feeling like you're a partnership, my ex and I were not partners. We just weren't we weren't such ying and yang. People used to laugh at us all the time. They'd be like, You guys are so opposite. You know, we're like, yeah, well opposites attract. And, you know, well, there were too far apart. adages, right, it's true. That's right. Yeah. Now.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:39

We're coming to the end of this thing, Marcy. And I ask everybody the same question as we're at the end of the show. You've gone through all these different things. You've gone through the suffering that divorce, what do you think it's taught you?

Marcy Cowen: 1:04:51

How strong I truly am. How I can really get through anything. I mean, I think mostly I was fighting with all this stuff. For the benefit of my children, they were really my main my primary focus. I wasn't really focused on me very much and had people telling me constantly, you know, you really need to focus on you and you need to get like, you know, you need to get your shit together and be strong for you know, for yourself, not just for your kids. But I learned I learned how strong I am. I really did. I mean, it's, there was a lot. And it's, I came through on the other side, and I'm independent. I'm, you know, I have a good job. I have a great company I'm working for. And I'm, you know, and I'm happy. I'm not dating anyone. I'm single. And I'm happy that way too.

Mike Failace: 1:05:36

So if anybody out there is, look.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:05:40

We're developing a new app. It's similar to Tinder. It's the suffering podcast dating app, hey, go, right. There's like Mike on there. And you know,

Marcy Cowen: 1:05:48

all of us suffering people

Mike DePalma: 1:05:50

write my own app.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:05:53

Yes, which we help you develop, gives you five chins. That's not nice.

Mike DePalma: 1:06:02

Next year is very, there's gonna be a lot of changes. There's gonna be a lot of changes.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:09

It's gonna go from a category five to a category. So

Mike DePalma: 1:06:13

I was up, I was over five few times. They weren't really nice.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:17

Marcy, I appreciate you coming in here, Mike, I appreciate you coming in to be the special guest host. But Marcy, you took me you talked about a subject that very few people want to talk about. And we do appreciate your honesty. Because with a 50% divorce rate, one of the two people that hear this show are going through it, went through it or about to go through it,

Marcy Cowen: 1:06:38

talk about it, talk about it to anybody. I mean, that helps to I think for you know, if, if I could give people if I've given lots and lots of people advice, and I've counseled a lot of people, and just, you know, kind of guided them through the process of you know, what you need to do, and especially in Pennsylvania, because I was representing myself, so I go through the court system and whatever, but it's best to talk about it and talk about it to people that are divorced and talk about it that worked on their marriage. You know, if you talk to lots of different people, you're gonna get lots of different opinions, but that might help you make the own your opinion for yourself. What's best for you,

Mike Failace: 1:07:11

you know, like, like you said before you don't advocate divorce, but if you're not happy, and everybody's miserable, at least do something to help your marriage.

Marcy Cowen: 1:07:19

I mean, not every marriage counseling or do some Well, that's the thing. And if you do all those things, and you're and no one's you're still not happy, my ex husband and I didn't fight one day ever. We never fought.

Mike Failace: 1:07:29

That's a problem. Correct? That's a problem. Because fighting, fighting, fighting works out problems. You have a problem. And it

Marcy Cowen: 1:07:36

gets it out. And that's much better than that than holding it in.

Mike Failace: 1:07:38

I will fight with her about then there's makeup sex. Yeah, there's always good.

Marcy Cowen: 1:07:45

But if you don't fight then you can't have to make. So what's the point?

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:50

Do you have any anything you want to throw out there for a plug?

Marcy Cowen: 1:07:53

I'm gonna throw out three acres of course.

Mike DePalma: 1:07:57

Right acres,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:07:58

three acres, three acres. Three acres, three

Mike DePalma: 1:08:00

acres. Say plug this.

Mike Failace: 1:08:05

This is AC II s three acres. You're gonna

Mike DePalma: 1:08:09

appreciate. You're gonna appreciate me. So May of 2020.

Marcy Cowen: 1:08:14

We're all marking your calendar. Once the date is there,

Mike DePalma: 1:08:17

I want I want to ask you to do like that thing. Like the the me singing the thing. I'm gonna sing

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:26

this Andrew thing? I do all that stuff. You do it? Yes, I

Mike DePalma: 1:08:29

do it. Alright, then you put that thing up. Which thing?

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:33

The first thing I did second? Marcy. Thank you so much.

Marcy Cowen: 1:08:36

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate.

Mike Failace: 1:08:39

Thanks for being so open and honest. Yeah, thanks. I mean, Kevin, come down to three acres. Well, for muscles surrounding. I would love

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:45

that. Check it out three acres. I know it's on Instagram.

Marcy Cowen: 1:08:48

He's on Instagram. Yeah, you can go to our website, three acres. jc.com.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:08:53

Okay. You don't

Mike Failace: 1:08:54

have to tell you before we went there the other day. I wanted a website. The website doesn't even do that. Please just

Marcy Cowen: 1:08:59

it does not really. It does not. And when we tell people that all the time when we schedule tours, we say You know what, like our pictures are great on there. But it doesn't do it justice. You have to come

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:07

in Absolutely. You're fantastic security detail that you have working. That's right. Of course.

Mike Failace: 1:09:12

Yeah. God, no.

Mike DePalma: 1:09:14

I do have to. I do have to give the most important person that got me there and pretty much changed my life. You will, you will know it's one of my bosses. It's Nikki Russo that that we grew up together, we work together and if it wasn't for that, man, I would have never been been in this position where I am now and be able to get my life back. So I have to really, that is shout out to plug plug in.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:09:44

That's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast and suffering a divorce with Marcia Cowan. And let's think about all the stuff that we learned today. Attraction comes in many forms. Hindsight is always 2020. Mike learned a word interject today. If there's always collateral damage in divorce, we all want to partner but most importantly talk about it and ask for help. Yeah, that's gonna do it for this episode don't forget to follow us on social media don't forget you can always listen before you watch all our episodes air on Sunday morning. Follow me on Instagram at real Kevin Donaldson follow Mike at Mike underscore Felice follow the suffering podcast also tick tock LinkedIn, Facebook all those all those social media things

Mike Failace: 1:10:30

I think Mike's on Instagram is fortune Mike.

Mike DePalma: 1:10:33

No

Kevin Donaldson: 1:10:37

matter matches his five head. That's gonna do it for this episode. We'll see you next time. 12 head