Episode 97: The Suffering of Vietnam

John Paulus was about to enter into a world that very few have ever experienced. Being of drafting age in the mid-60s, left John was vulnerable to being drafted into the military to go and fight in the Vietnam war. After John was eventually drafted, he chose to enlist in the Marines. The idealistic soldier experienced a trial by fire landing into Vietnam and stepping off the plane while live rounds are flying overhead. The horror, pain, and loss was experienced at a young age that left lasting memories. John made it through and returned to the United States to face a different type of war, against those who did not believe that the war or its soldiers deserve the place in the New World. This gripping and touching story will keep you captivated from beginning until the end.

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Transcript

Kevin Donaldson: 0:00

This is gonna hurt. It's time for the sufferings of young men are sent off to a foreign land to fight for a cause that they don't fully understand. Experiencing brutality, death, and harm is the meal that is dying on at every city. Yet they stand tall and do their duty, not because of an ideal, but because of their family and arms fighting by their side, dreams of home, and better times fill what little sleep is stolen into chaos, waiting and hoping to get back to a normal life. If only they can hold on a little longer. The only hearts and minds that need to be won are those soldiers that are still in the trenches. After all, the blood, sweat and tears has been shed, the wheels touchdown in their beloved homeland. They were greeted with this stain and called off of names. These warriors had to face a continuing battle at home. I'm Kevin Donaldson here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast, we sit down with John Paulus to discuss the suffering of Vietnam. John fought two battles, one overseas, and then one back in home. Thank you so much for traveling all this way to come

Mike Failace: 1:09

with us. Welcome, John. It's always a pleasure to talk to people like you.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:13

You know, I keep forgetting that, that Vietnam veterans are now senior citizens. I have a tough time because they were our fathers or football coaches. That was the Vietnam era. And now, you know, they're they're starting to go away and I don't like that. I don't like that. Gee, Sylvester Stallone. 75. Yeah, you know, the Yeah, so before we get too far into it, let's thank our marquee sponsor, that's Toyota of Hackensack. We buy our cars from Toyota Hackensack? Because we don't trust anybody. So go to Toyota hackensack.com. Let them find you a car. Now, John. You've traveled all this way in our first start of every episode is to take take a question from our audience. This week's question comes from Steve says, What is your favorite horror movie? Usually our questions are, you know, you know, how much suffering can you take before you break?

Mike Failace: 2:03

This one's This one's you take your dog for a walk today.

Kevin Donaldson: 2:07

So you have a different perspective on war movies than say, Mike and I because we weren't we didn't go to war. We watch them for entertainment. We watch police movies for authenticity. What's your favorite war movie?

John Paulus: 2:17

Full Metal Jacket?

Kevin Donaldson: 2:18

Yeah. Why? So why is that one? Yeah,

John Paulus: 2:21

it was pretty authentic to the bootcamp to Vietnam is pretty authentic, except for the fact that the when he shot committed suicide, they it's almost impossible. They would take the rifles waveless lock them up. And for him to have around. They made sure you had no rounds when you left the rifle range.

Mike Failace: 2:40

I mean, that's that's all part of Hollywood though. That's what I was saying. Like with authentic movies, and we could watch a cop movie a police movie and and pick it apart. Right from from point A to point Z.

John Paulus: 2:52

But it's amazing because everything else other than that was right on.

Kevin Donaldson: 2:55

So the the one part in that movie, The suicide scene that you're talking about right after boot camp, there was about 15 opportunities for Joker to go and seize that weapon from Private Pyle. And he never did it. He just stood there and looked at him even though he had an unloaded weapon sitting at his feet. Yeah, so you know, but again, it's great movie. Yeah, it's a fantastic movie. Yeah. Mike, what do you think?

Mike Failace: 3:18

No. I think for for action purposes, which is probably the most overproduced movie, I think was Rambo.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:25

Rambo was the first Rambo one Oscars like it was it wasn't a typical Sylvester Stallone movie.

Mike Failace: 3:30

But how realistic was that movie?

John Paulus: 3:33

I don't think it was realistic at all. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Mike Failace: 3:35

I mean, I mean, to us, to us, you know, non military guys, you know, never served a day in the military. Yeah. To me, that was a you know, it was a great movie. Yeah. Because I don't know any better.

Kevin Donaldson: 3:45

It was important for this reason, because it brought to light some of the struggles that the veterans had coming home, the original one. The second one is, I mean, you're under fire and you're sleeping with your hot co star. But but so that happened

Mike Failace: 4:00

to Vietnam a lot too. We'll get into that later. Sure.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:05

For me, I'm a big fan of lone survivor, because I'm a big fan of Marcus Luttrell. Yeah, you know, the Operation Red Wings in 2005. They were up on that mountain. They're hunting a guy and they they just they're in a bad place. They're in a bad spot. Yeah, but the nice thing the thing that I always loved about him The thing that always brings a tear to my eyes you got these four guys up on a mountain that will die for each other right? Their brothers their true brothers in arms. And that's what always struck home to me and the will to live to is

Mike Failace: 4:33

another thing if I die.

Kevin Donaldson: 4:36

This so you know,

John Paulus: 4:37

I did like Mel Gibson to that movie he made when we were soldiers. That was awesome. You know,

Kevin Donaldson: 4:43

I didn't die too long ago either. I did. I saw some stuff but on that, getting back to Lone Survivor. There's one line that always makes me choke up and it's Matthew Axelsson. And he's he's, he says, If I die here on this mountain, tell my wife at least I die with my brothers. And that kills me. I have to Stop the movie every time because I don't want my 12 year old to see me crying. He loves that movie as well. And now my 12 year old wants to go into the military and I'm just there's part of me that's proud. And there's part of me that's not

Mike Failace: 5:11

see I always say, I don't want to say my my favorite militaries are my most touching military stories got to be Pat Tillman. Pat Tillman, that's a great deal of everything. He gave up. Everything gave up an NFL career. Oh, yeah. You know, to go and fight for the country and and he wound up getting killed by friendly fire. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I still where I'm a member to Pat Tillman Foundation, you know, I go on his, you know, he's got 5k runs over 4.2 mile runs. And I go every year, I got plenty of Pat Tillman. What Pat Tillman jerseys? And remember, that, to me is a true American hero.

Kevin Donaldson: 5:45

I just I agree. So that's what we all should do. We all should sacrifice everything for a country that I think

Mike Failace: 5:52

is a sacrifice for us.

Kevin Donaldson: 5:54

So John, this is the always the most loaded question that we ask everybody. And that's just tell us about yourself.

John Paulus: 6:02

Well, let's see. I grew up watching John Wayne movies. I always had a fascination about the Marines.

Kevin Donaldson: 6:09

Now do you think you think all cowboys who who will work cowboys have watched John Wayne movies go on? Yeah, that's foolish. Yeah, that's bullshit.

Mike Failace: 6:17

John Wayne movie.

John Paulus: 6:19

But I I will see when I received my draft notice rather than go into the army, I went into Marines because I believed in I liked I always was very proud of them reach. And I, I think that if I had to do it over again, I would do the same thing. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 6:39

Well, I know a lot of the draft dodgers in the culture of the 60s. Nobody, it was one of those wars. Again, looking back on it. I wasn't there. One of those wars that seemed to be the unpopular war, because the media was involved in the media can shake people's minds. When you when you got your draft noticed, was it it? Was it like a feeling of dread?

John Paulus: 7:02

At the time, at the time, I was very patriotic. And I believe that, you know, we all have to do our duty for our country. And, you know, the reason why is that we're gonna we're gonna stop communism, so it doesn't spread to the United States. That was a reason. That's why and I believe that until I guess, I started seeing all the call hippies demonstrators back home, and what they were saying Hanoi, Jane? Yeah, well, okay. Yeah, yeah, Jane. Right. So that's, that change didn't change my mind. But it was just sad. Sad to see that.

Kevin Donaldson: 7:38

So handily, Jane, do you know the true story behind Jane Fonda is involvement, the true star because I read the book called night, and it's about prisoner wars in Vietnam. So when she went over there to check the conditions of the prisoner of war camp, one of the guys handed her a piece of paper with his social security number. That's what I heard, right. And what she did was abhorrent. And she gave the piece of paper to the commanding officer of the pow case right here. Yeah. And because of that, that guy got severely severely punished

John Paulus: 8:07

about what she had put the helmet on. And she sat in the gun turret. Yeah, they've ignored me. He's army and pretend she was shooting.

Kevin Donaldson: 8:14

Right against your own people, against your own people. You know, that's so.

Mike Failace: 8:19

And here's a woman who makes millions of dollars millions of American dollars. Yeah, because we pay for stuff that chin she puts out there.

Kevin Donaldson: 8:26

Now you went to what year? Did you enlist? Or how old were you in when you enlisted? Just shy of 19 to shy of 19. And so you went to high school and a lot of people who will go in what year was this? By the way?

John Paulus: 8:38

I got enlisted in 6666.

Kevin Donaldson: 8:40

So right out of high school, because you probably graduated in 65. Yeah, if I'm not mistaken. Right. So you saw some people going? Yeah. You saw some people starting to get drafted a lot of my friends. What was the what was the common talk amongst those? I'm going to

Mike Failace: 8:54

feeling around everybody.

John Paulus: 8:57

They were like, there were some people that didn't want to go. And they would say like, you know, I'll actually, I mean, that uniform, the Marine Corps uniform, really smart. A lot of people they were proud of proud that, you know, they knew me that I went in there. And they didn't say nothing bad about it. I came home when I went to the high school with my uniform on

Kevin Donaldson: 9:21

the others dress blues are beauties and had to be a

Mike Failace: 9:23

proud moment. Oh, yeah. I always see that. Like when Marines come walking into a school.

John Paulus: 9:27

Yeah, but I didn't have my dress blues, I might address greens, okay. And they're short to Yeah, they're really nice Lincoln. And I would stand at the top of school and then all the teachers coming up to me and all the students coming up to me, but a lot of my friends in 64 and 65 went into the Marines. So that also kind of motivated me to

Kevin Donaldson: 9:46

I'm going to tell Mike, I'm going to show you how you can test you can show who a true Marine is when the Marine Corps birthday,

John Paulus: 9:52

November 10.

Kevin Donaldson: 9:54

Every Marine they must really beat that into you in bootcamp

John Paulus: 10:00

I think really, I mean, the fact that I'm involved on the Marine Corps League, and the VFW. I mean, je je or Hunter Hunter, our commander. He's a marine too. So we celebrate November 10. There. Yeah. And I also I used to live in Maryland in Ocean City, and they're big on the Marine Corps birthday over there also.

Kevin Donaldson: 10:21

Well, I used to hang around an old Marine. That's why I know the birthday. And every November 10, I text him a happy birthday. Happy birthday is the same thing. And you know that it was a big, it was a big thing. He was somebody who was very dear to me. And I know it was a sense of pride. He always identified he was a Marine. And I think he was a Marine before he identified as a Marine before father was gonna

Mike Failace: 10:43

say Marines care more about November 10. And our own birthday.

John Paulus: 10:45

Oh, matter of fact, we're going to tun Tavern in Philadelphia, this November 10, with a busload, like 14 of us, and we just go we hang out. There's like 3000 Marines walking around, you know,

Kevin Donaldson: 10:58

you gotta go to so one of our sponsors is grand Saloon in Clifton. If you go to 940 van Houghton Avenue, you gotta bring all your Marines there. They're so Pro. First Responder veteran, Nick over there takes care everybody pro American. Yeah, they're pro American. And they got great food. And they got they really do they have great food although Nick spam on the menu. That's that's my own personal little crusade tried to get spam on his menu.

Mike Failace: 11:22

Okay, now we're talking about spam. How much spam Did you eat over Vietnam?

John Paulus: 11:26

I didn't even have any spam over here. But my mom cooked a lot of spam when I was a kid.

Kevin Donaldson: 11:30

Oh, my grandfather made Spaniels and eggs. So good. And my kids, I got my kids back, right. It's expensive now. Yeah, it's $5 a kid. Wow. It's crazy. Yeah, we bought it.

Mike Failace: 11:42

Like Monty Python, the Holy Grail, spam, spam, spam, spam.

Kevin Donaldson: 11:46

So you go you enlist. And then you go to boot camp. You You're this idealistic kid going into this, this world and you think I'm going to be a soldier, I'm going to be a warrior. I'm going to I'm going to, I'm going to kill the Marines. I'm going to be a Marine. Now you're going into boot camp. What was your wake up call? When you get into boot camp?

John Paulus: 12:08

When he the day I got on the bus? We fought we pulled into the parasol. And when it I got on it bucks, man.

Mike Failace: 12:17

This ain't like the movies. He's yelling.

John Paulus: 12:21

Can I say I'm sorry. You can say whatever you want. He's yelling at us all the belly buttons as a volleyball. Don't you eyeball me boy? Don't you eyeball me. And we were like, well, most likely, guys. You're one thing they don't want you to look into right in their face. You know? You gotta look above them.

Kevin Donaldson: 12:38

So what the drill instructor in my police academy was force recon Marine, and he trained us modified, obviously. But he always did you know, it was the point. The never point. It was that because apparently these days in the Marines he can't point at any. Yeah, so you do this and he was serious as a heart attack. He was about five foot two scary individual I've ever met in my life. Yeah, scary. Scary. So first day police academy I can I can I can understand that because he he's got his clipboard. He's Donaldson. You don't belong here. And he looks me right in the eye. All right, I guess I don't belong. So I started turning my car around it was parked your car and then get in the lane and rest. So that that di starts yelling at you. What's next?

John Paulus: 13:25

Well, they get us off the bus and we got to stand in these yellow feet are painted there. So the the it is an order that gets gets your order, get your order in order that time. And they weren't just right in. I think the first thing they did was start cutting our hair.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:42

Just like just like full metal jacket.

Mike Failace: 13:44

Yeah. And he shaved like stripes.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:47

That take a little bit off the top but

Mike Failace: 13:49

my name is Alex Berger. My friends call me Alex.

Kevin Donaldson: 13:53

This is like an eight week program. I figured I could lose some weight. Did you have any? Somebody in your bus put you in the lean and rest almost immediately. I guarantee it. Somebody screwed up. Somebody was fooling around. Somebody did something to put you in the lean and rest position which for those people who don't know, is the push up position.

John Paulus: 14:14

Yeah, I mean, if we find somebody who for an offer or something like that, right off the bat, start doing some push ups. Yeah. And pretty much all he did was like scream at you. You know, they were screaming at these guys. I mean, maybe made them sound like real eight holes, you know, screaming, screaming screaming. But I think the really once that started as far as separating people who made goofed up was when in the in the barracks, you know, that's when he really got you're going to exercise the heck out of you. And if you want, I had a friend that was when he went in with me from my from South Plainfield High School. And he kept smirking at the DI and di said, Get your face off me boy and He and He would wipe that smirk off. Now he's what he takes the smoke off his face. As soon as they do I turn around. This guy was always that's always the personality. He always had a smirk on his face. I knew him for a couple of years. So the I turn around, he made that smirk on his face again, di runs up to him says, Boy, you love me or something? You think I'm pretty nice. So he says, this is by you going on motivation platoon. Now that's where you don't want to go motivation material. I don't feel heard about that one. No, that one that one I've never heard of. and motivation. Mattoon is one March is my most major motivation. But to me just a scary show. motivation was bitumen, he had his big pile of sand on one side, and they put this silver helmet on you. And you give you a bucket, and you had an empty that pile of sand and take it over to the other end of the field and dump it there. And then once that's done, they did and Meantime, they had a DI there, and a couple days. And they had their little billy clubs, you know, and they were making you move, and you couldn't stop out, run back, back and back and back forward. So that was part of motivation, you know, and we also he, I don't want to go into motivation. So he he looked straight ahead. You look at that EI.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:13

Now you think it hit you at this point, too.

John Paulus: 16:15

Yeah, they were going through, if you did something wrong, they'd come up and punch you in a belly, you know, a punch in your chest. They would.

Mike Failace: 16:25

It wasn't the kinder, gentler marine coral. No,

John Paulus: 16:27

no. Yeah, they were tough. They were tough on us. I mean, and you've seen a lot of that, you know, the one guy smack that guy in a hit with a what is Smokey Bear helmet and Smokey Bear hat. And it started bleeding. But then you know, they were supposed to hit you. So started bleeding. And he really got some napkins, right? We stuck it on. He's looking around, make sure there's no officers around, because you probably would have got busted for doing that.

Kevin Donaldson: 16:52

But those those drills from what I understand were the most squared away. Individuals on the planet uniforms fit perfect. Shoes perfectly shot. And from what and

Mike Failace: 17:02

that was something he almost looked up to him as someone who you want to emulate. You know, that's why they put those behind.

John Paulus: 17:08

Sergeant Brown. I remember his name to this day, right? And he had his scar right down his cheek here to his lip. And he talked through the slicers look like this. And he's he's a fucking Margaret spaniel. And he got right to your face, you know? And He was built like, he looked like a bulldog. He was short and look like a bulldog. You didn't mess with that guy at all. You get

Kevin Donaldson: 17:28

scared of these people but at the same time it's so serious. Did you ever crack a smile or fight off the urge to laugh?

Mike Failace: 17:37

There's certain things they say and we saw it in a police academy. There's certain things they say where you're almost chuckle at

Kevin Donaldson: 17:43

my my di again hit the force recon Marine serious as a heart attack look like Scott Farkas from from A Christmas Story used to stutter. Right? He would stutter he would come up and he was he was so short. He looks straight up at you. And he did. Try Not to Laugh. Try Not to Laugh. Yeah, it's almost impossible. That's right. It's and guess what he's trying to make you laugh. Like I figured it out after the police academy. We're towards the end. That's all part of the game, break you down as individuals build you back up as one. And

John Paulus: 18:13

I'm very proud of what we do so so well, on bootcamp that there's squats for squads. And if you stay a squad leader that the whole time and you do a do a good job. At the end of bootcamp, you're awarded a PFC stripe. So I was one of the squad leaders to get a PFC stripe out there to get my dress blues because that guy that was that got a guide. He was right on and he was perfect. Never missed a step. So he stayed the whole time. But I I was proud that I got that out of boot camp.

Kevin Donaldson: 18:42

Now there are there any other experiences in boot camp that are that are noteworthy now I'm sure you know, you. You probably went through how many weeks

John Paulus: 18:50

was eight weeks for us eight weeks and then we went to advanced infantry training after that for another four weeks,

Kevin Donaldson: 18:57

eight weeks to get somebody ready to go to war. Now did you ever look back now in hindsight and understand from a drill instructors perspective why they were so tough they had an abbreviated time to get you ready to go fight that you it did that ever clicking? You

John Paulus: 19:14

know, but you know, the originally had 12 weeks training but with the Vietnam War, a one that is out quick and you know, over there, Vietnam.

Kevin Donaldson: 19:21

So did you ever run into your old Di? No. That I never ran into him? No, no. Was Was he a Mustang? No, no, he was not no, no. The Mustang from what I understand. The Mustangs are the officers who worked away to work their way up from enlisted Yeah, no. Solicit Yep. Yeah, they've enlisted and they were always a little bit more respected from what I understand. Yeah, yeah. Because otherwise where they go Quantico? Yeah. Quantico. Yeah. Like I said, I spent a lot of time when an old time Marine who fought in the Dominican Republican 65.

Mike Failace: 19:51

So you get on vacation Dominican Republic.

Kevin Donaldson: 19:55

I don't think this was Punta Cana. No, were they more if they were But you. So you survive bootcamp. And you probably think this is just a huge, huge victory. How many guys were in your graduating class

Mike Failace: 20:10

at 80. But you don't you know, it's amazing. No, you get the bootcamp and you're like, Ah, we're done. Now, it's just the start of it for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, it's like you graduate high school. And you think, you know, I'm done doing colleges next. But now, you graduate bootcamp. The next thing is, you know, infantry training.

Kevin Donaldson: 20:29

Now, the first thing is your celebration, because you get what, three, four days leave?

John Paulus: 20:35

Well, you're my parents came up.

Kevin Donaldson: 20:37

So did they least bring you a celebratory cigar? Oh, we had to give it because once again, another one of our sponsors, frontline cigars. So you do frontline cigar. Actually, if you go to frontline cigars.com, put in tsp, you get a 15% discount, but you got to you got to celebrate, if you just pay. So I said tsp 20. No tsp 20. Is poeple. All Policies the other I

John Paulus: 20:58

believe they gave his time with the family? Yeah. And we went out for like dinner on base

Kevin Donaldson: 21:03

totally changed probably from when your parents saw your last?

John Paulus: 21:05

Yeah. And yeah, I was straight up and down, you know, and I think that they had a leaf was I didn't get my leave yet. But then right after, right after we're after we graduated, we get 30 days leave. And then we had to come back to I think the advanced infantry training after that.

Kevin Donaldson: 21:24

And how long until the of your ad how many how many actually went,

John Paulus: 21:29

you know, not positive about that whether we went from boot camp to advanced binge drink and then leave could be that way, too.

Kevin Donaldson: 21:34

It was 50 years ago. Expect to remember that

Mike Failace: 21:38

baler may remember 50 minutes ago, years ago,

Kevin Donaldson: 21:41

how long how many of your say you're at graduates in your boot camp? got shipped off to Vietnam? What do you think it was all of them or some of them had to stay safe stateside?

John Paulus: 21:51

Yeah. I would say probably 70 to 75%. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, only, you know, a few people I talked to who said that they you get an MOS that, like an office poke? You know, they need you in Campbell in June, as we stay. And it's not, you know, it's not that they didn't want I talk to these guys saying, I wish I could have went to Vietnam. You know, I volunteer, but they wouldn't let me you know, because it's a job they got to do.

Kevin Donaldson: 22:15

Now, do you look on those people who didn't go over there that you know, are? I know, there's probably a lot of self guilt in them. But how do you view them?

John Paulus: 22:27

I view that, hey, if government asks you to do a certain job, and that's what you're told to do. If I was told via the job, and I was told to go to Vietnam, that's what you got to do. I mean, you can volunteer. If they send you a great if not, then you know, they don't send you. I mean,

Mike Failace: 22:44

it's got to be a weird feeling. Whether it's I don't know if it's a sense of relief.

Kevin Donaldson: 22:49

You don't join the military to be a typist. Yeah, exactly.

Mike Failace: 22:51

That's what I'm saying. You know, you're going through his boot camp gearing up to go to war. And all of a sudden, you know, it's like I said, When I graduated, please get me I was full of piss and vinegar. I was ready to go out on the street. Yeah, I got put into courts. Yes. All right.

Kevin Donaldson: 23:04

That is why I didn't never want it. I never applied for the Sheriff's. Because I

John Paulus: 23:07

didn't want to write though. The guys that didn't go over, came back and said I wish I had gone, you know, then what do you tell him? I say, Hey, you did what you had to do. And that was your job. And you you served your country.

Kevin Donaldson: 23:18

But going over there? Do you say no, you don't wish you were over there?

John Paulus: 23:23

Oh, yeah. I mean, I say no, he did not demand you know, I'm lucky I came home. It

Kevin Donaldson: 23:28

wasn't a vacation now. So you, you you go through all your advanced infantry training. Now it's time to fly out. And one of my I'm a big fan of the movie hair or the play hair. And they're what I see a marching on to the to the DC 10. And they're gonna they're about to fly off to Vietnam and they're marching and stuff. Kids are crying. There. everybody's scared. shitless how many how many of the people just see him shaken?

John Paulus: 23:55

And everyone, I will shake it. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, we're jumping a little bit because just before I went to Vietnam, they put me on a mate cruise. And a matru is his Marine infantry. There was 100 of us below a troop transport ship. And we float around in the mid and we would do maneuvers on all the islands like Sicily, Sardinia treat, you know, we do maneuvers training for Vietnam. And that was a six month thing. Plus they gave us good leave that after that, we came on the way home. My Lieutenant came down. Very, very gung ho Lieutenant. And he yells out, Paul, us. I know you're in that hit the head was the bathroom. He says and I know you're going to volunteer for Vietnam. And I said Yes, sir. You know, so from that point on now you can go take it.

Kevin Donaldson: 24:44

So you you get on that transport. Well, what explain what's going on and you've got

John Paulus: 24:49

he was I flew

Mike Failace: 24:52

conversion class probably right. Yeah. And commercial

John Paulus: 24:55

was a 737. We had four very pretty stewardesses that you know, on the Guys, we're kidding with them. And they were kidding with us, you know, but they can see we were nervous. They're trying to make his call, you know. And when we pull it, we pull into Danang with this commercial airline. And they say, get off the airline first fast because they're still taking incoming rounds. And we don't know, you know, if they're, when it's going to happen. So we got to drop these off and get out of here.

Kevin Donaldson: 25:21

Imagine those airline, those airline stewardesses imagine and the pilots you imagine, and you are, you know, you're probably flying 30 40% to their death. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Think about for a second, they may not be fighting, but they're bringing people to the battle. Yeah. The shreds. They're part of the war to stress those folks. Yeah, I can't imagine those poor women are looking you in the face saying, Am I gonna? Am I Am I ever going to see you back? Am I going

Mike Failace: 25:51

to see you on a flight back home?

John Paulus: 25:53

Well, you know, it's funny, you said that, because you don't want us to get on the sea 4060. Helicopters, take us out to our mountain tops and drop us off. And, you know, a lot of noise and shaken and shaken. And you got nine Marines, one side, nine Marines on the other side, you know, and I'm looking at the Marines and I see myself wonder how many my friends aren't going to make a comeback? You know, this operation? Right? Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 26:15

Did it? Did it cause you to get distance with some people who you were in country with?

Mike Failace: 26:21

Or did it cause more of a

John Paulus: 26:22

bond? Now, it was more of a bond more of a bond. But you know, I remember in, in Vietnam, they rotated us. So in other words, when I was getting three guys, we leave it and more guys were coming in. So it wasn't like, we were to where you were with those guys the whole time. You know, we were shifting different people all the time. And you got to know people. I mean, I had a bilateral bond with the manufacturer, one of the guys I was with in Vietnam, joined the VFW in Glen Gardner. And I'm good friends with

Kevin Donaldson: 26:57

him. Same home of our very famous

Mike Failace: 27:00

Bob Gibson. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 27:03

Right. If you go back to our episode with Bob Gibson, and World War Two, yeah, actually suffering a D Day, you'll find out exactly how we met and how we came to know you. But you get in country, you step off the plane, aside from the incoming rounds. What what do you see? What's your feelings about what's going on?

John Paulus: 27:22

I see people walking around with bandages, blood, blood coming out of the bandages, take us into the hangar. And they said, you're going to be just a couple minutes, people walking by and stretchers, you know, wheeling around with stretchers, and you get nervous. And you see all that, you know, you're coming away from the States. It's like, what's going

Mike Failace: 27:41

on? Now, when you get off of that plane? Did you feel you're well prepared? Or did you feel like holy shit, what am I getting myself into? Or both?

John Paulus: 27:48

What I'm getting myself into, you know, but I, but I set myself as me and I said, I'm going to do it. You know, I'm going to I'm going to do it. I'm gonna do the best I can.

Kevin Donaldson: 27:59

So reality hits you hard sometimes what is reality, you know,

Mike Failace: 28:02

and you can be as excited as you want to go. But once you step off that plane that excitement just turns this You're

John Paulus: 28:09

terrible. See, these guys are going on. And Meantime, rockets and mortars were being dropped in on the airport, right? And you hear all this and, and we're in a hangar here. Shaking, you know, it's like,

Kevin Donaldson: 28:21

while you do your feet, you went right into the fire?

John Paulus: 28:24

Well, not yet. So they, they sense that

Kevin Donaldson: 28:27

will timeout.

Mike Failace: 28:29

There's mortars going off. We're not in the fire,

Kevin Donaldson: 28:31

incoming rounds, mortars going off. And you're not yet in the fire.

John Paulus: 28:36

Not the real deal. But this was, you know, real deals when you get out in the boonies and in the jungle there, you know.

Kevin Donaldson: 28:41

So, you know, you talk about full metal jacket, and everybody thinks Vietnam was only fought in the jungle, especially being 50 years removed from it. There were cities in there too, that you went and include Correct. City, or towns, let's say

John Paulus: 28:57

now, as you might my unit was stationed up in the hills, mostly along the DMZ by case on the military and we were up high there, you know, and that was like, they would drop us off on a hilltop. And we went all around the jungles real thick stuff, you know, as you see my picture there that I brought with those bananas.

Kevin Donaldson: 29:18

I had bananas we're gonna have drew put that up on the screen as you're as you're talking about,

John Paulus: 29:21

and you can see how thick the jungle is, you know? So

Kevin Donaldson: 29:25

what was it like trudging through that stuff? hard?

John Paulus: 29:27

Very hard. Sure. Because we had a lot of rain and the jungle grass get real slippery. And it gets sharp. And you just hit it and your keys your cut, you know, like

Kevin Donaldson: 29:37

sawgrass. Yes. Yeah, if you go if you go against the grain, it'll it'll cut you if you go with the grain. It's nice and smooth.

Mike Failace: 29:43

And they're dead. It was dead like the paper cuts to their labor pain. Yes, things. I mean error like hell yeah.

John Paulus: 29:49

And of course, you know, you get dirty it gets infected though. So I mean, I'll give you an instance. We when we first got there, we were carrying to 3.5 rocket and the launcher and And we were every one squad was required to carry one of the rounds, which was about, but I guess maybe a foot and a half long, you know, it'd be pretty big. So we'd have to get down the bottom of these hills and you couldn't get down the bottom, the hills wholeness because it was so much grass and jungle stuff and it was slippery. And you would have to pass around down to the guy down at the bottom, slightly down. Then you slid down yourself after that.

Kevin Donaldson: 30:25

I Forrest Gump wasn't with he was he? I'm sorry, Forrest Gump wasn't with you. Was he? No, no. Okay. I just want to make sure as well, because you if you found him, you just stick near him because he's lucky. Yeah. Now, when was your first taste? If that wasn't the fire getting off the plane? What was your taste of real battle? Like real Vietnam battle?

John Paulus: 30:46

I got I got to Vietnam in like November 20. But of what year of 67? Okay. 67

Mike Failace: 30:53

and 10 days after the Marine Corps birthday. Yeah.

John Paulus: 30:57

And that really didn't happen to like the summer 60 cold I think was Operation Kentucky was cold. And we were It was a dark, you know, and raining. And we're had dug our foxholes at the top of the perimeter. And NVA, heavy NVA attacked us. And we that's when I received my DICOM. Bill.

Kevin Donaldson: 31:22

So take that out. I want to this is a first for our for the suffering podcast. We actually have a grenade in studio that used to belong to North Korea and the officer MBA officer. Show us what that is, John. Now, this is

John Paulus: 31:38

a belt buckle. So caracters belt they call right? Well,

Kevin Donaldson: 31:41

my first question was, Is it in? Or

Mike Failace: 31:43

is it? Is it live?

Kevin Donaldson: 31:45

Is it live? That's an amazing piece. Something that's a piece of history. Right? Yeah, that is that's that's a really amazing thing.

John Paulus: 31:55

It's got the Chinese writings on it. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 31:57

Is that where they got all their munitions from China? And they a lot of them? Yeah. And that. So what you're holding right there is from a deceased officer. Now that officer, I don't I don't even want to know whether you did it or when he when your friends did or whatever you did. When you saw him there, when when he died? Was there any remorse at all?

John Paulus: 32:23

There was but there was so much action going on, you know, you're kind of like, happy was you knew when he was in your close friend. But some of my buddies did get K eight. But you just lucky it was in you. And so you didn't have I didn't have any feelings for

Kevin Donaldson: 32:36

now, in looking in retrospect, to soldiers fighting on opposite sides of the battle. How do you view him now? 50 some odd years later. Dead? Yeah. You know, I see this with Gettysburg. So you had the soldiers from each side of Gettysburg, they would meet at on the battlefield shake hands. Yeah. Do you think

John Paulus: 32:57

well, they were Americans. They were brothers. Think different. You know?

Kevin Donaldson: 33:00

Yeah, that's what that's what I'm trying to I'm trying to figure that out. I'm trying to work through that in my head. Yeah. Do you bear any any harbor any bad feelings towards those people who fought against? Or do you realize it or some some modicum of I had,

John Paulus: 33:12

I had a trip awarded to go back to Vietnam, all expenses paid. And I didn't go. I mean, I've done it. I've seen it. And I heard that there. They tried to talk to nature, the Americans coming over about they won this and they won that, you know, and they got the plaques up in their names and all that. So I wasn't I didn't want to see that stuff.

Mike Failace: 33:32

Yeah, right. You go over there and call bullshit on it. Yeah.

Kevin Donaldson: 33:36

Well, the war the war has been over for so long, that I'm always wondering about that soldiers fighting on opposite sides. How do you view each other? As time moves on? Is there some respect involved? Hey, you did your thing. I did your thing. We fought for what we believed and you fought for what you believed. And, you know, you chewed some of the same dirt. And I'm wondering about that.

John Paulus: 33:56

Well, there's, there was a Vietnamese family down in I guess, just before Atlantic City, and they have, they invited all veterans, and they bought they bought a monument. And they placed it in the marble monument placed in the local park. And all these Vietnamese soldiers that were on the Vietnamese Army, and women were all in full dress. And they gave all the Americans us total respect. You know, so, I mean, it's, it's come together in the, you know, you can see that they're very appreciative What the what we did for them. And now, they come back and they give you so much respect. I mean, I don't have any hard feelings, as to se Nice. That was the good guys.

Mike Failace: 34:44

I was gonna say, there was probably no kumbaya shake hand moments, but obviously, that's kind of like her kumbaya shake hand moment.

Kevin Donaldson: 34:49

Probably looked at him a little side. Yeah. Well,

John Paulus: 34:53

you know, we know there was those guys over there. They were known to run, you know, they didn't stay when they had to stay So that's something I have a hard feelings about that you don't run away from somebody who's in danger. They were supposed to, like have our left side or right side. And when you needed them there, they weren't there.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:10

Yet, unfortunately, another feeling.

Mike Failace: 35:13

And we talked about it quite often. And it was from a lieutenant. Yes, yes. Here we go.

Kevin Donaldson: 35:20

Mike was actually from what I understand. I never worked with Mike. But Mike was a good Lieutenant. There was a there was some some of those out there. So talk to us about some of the worst battles the worst of the worst.

John Paulus: 35:33

I guess that Kentucky was bad. And then we did this,

Kevin Donaldson: 35:37

how many did you lose in Kentucky? Operation Kentucky?

John Paulus: 35:40

Well, that one I was talking about that mountaintop when I broke through, I think there was 4k A's. You know, as opposed to maybe 200 of the opposite people in the NBA. But, um, they're probably the worst that was in the I was in this Pegasus battles. It was a, it was they sent us into the hills of Vietnam at Hill at one eight, just to clear the area, right, because they had a lot of pressure and VA with a lot of pressure on case on and they want us to go into your breakup as much as we could. So we spent a lot of time in those hills. Search and destroy, and it was, you know, take two or three, four or five, you know, you never know what how bad the firefight is going to be. But

Kevin Donaldson: 36:30

what was it like first time you fired your weapon in anger? Or in battle? Let's say not it not so much anger?

John Paulus: 36:36

Well, you'd probably nervous before it happens, you know? And then once you let go a few rounds, you know, and you realize it you know, you gotta get you gotta stop these guys.

Mike Failace: 36:44

Now, you got to do it. You got to do it's either you or him. You got

Kevin Donaldson: 36:47

to modify. Take a look at that. That grenade. I just want to put this on full display. Look at this. This is something one 567 Z. Yep, that's where it was taken from. That right there is a reminder of have actually I want to move that a little closer away from

Mike Failace: 37:09

me, just in case. This is not a nerd. That right there is

Kevin Donaldson: 37:13

a reminder of now this thing explodes and it's probably filled with all sorts of garbage in here to

Mike Failace: 37:20

battle, like ball bearings and stuff like that.

Kevin Donaldson: 37:24

This isn't going to take out a platoon, but or a fire team, but it's going to really might blow your leg off

Mike Failace: 37:29

is going to cause some damage. Yeah.

John Paulus: 37:30

would hurt somebody in the foxhole. Absolutely. Exactly.

Kevin Donaldson: 37:33

Exactly. That's crazy. And so you the Pegasus missions. I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just I had to I had this. I've been eyeing this thing up. I had to see it.

John Paulus: 37:41

Yeah. Which is that that's a call to the operation Pegasus. And we went Mill Hill is just to keep the NVA from approaching case on and we did what we could but what really stopped them going approaching a case on is you know, they were the BT 29 bombers and the jets with the napalm hit those hills like crazy, you know, so that killed a lot of people but it's softened it up where they wouldn't didn't each back off after that.

Kevin Donaldson: 38:09

There is a question No, that that is just born a hole in my soul. What exactly does napalm smell like in the morning? According to Robert Duvall, he loves it. That's all I know.

Mike Failace: 38:24

Yeah. puts it on his eggs and

Kevin Donaldson: 38:26

it does have a very distinct smell to it. Right? Yeah. And when that's dropped, I imagine it lights up every

John Paulus: 38:34

heat is you feel the heat miles away, you know, a mile away you know, that's very heat vapor

Kevin Donaldson: 38:39

hot and they don't even know how many people that kill

Mike Failace: 38:42

ya know can engage in orange. Well,

Kevin Donaldson: 38:45

Agent Orange that's that's that was the Get rid of the bugs, correct?

John Paulus: 38:49

No, that was to kill the foliage. So that so that we could see where the NBAs holes were at? Oh, no. So we can operate better now

Kevin Donaldson: 38:57

that each what your your group of guys? What was it? What was it called? was a fire team?

John Paulus: 39:02

Was it? Well, you have a fire team and the squad squad and a platoon. Does everybody

Kevin Donaldson: 39:06

have their own say, quote unquote, tunnel rat to go in there?

John Paulus: 39:12

No, they just like a if we ran into a tunnel. We did the officer with Astro volunteer. Really? Yeah. The

Mike Failace: 39:19

SOS volunteer volunteer tunnel rat.

Kevin Donaldson: 39:22

One of the most dangerous men I've ever met in my life was a Vietnam tunnel rat. His name was Bob Bobby Casper. He was the most unassuming man I've ever seen in my life. 5657 He was a he was a master stop

Mike Failace: 39:34

short shaming.

Kevin Donaldson: 39:37

He was a he was a master at Filipino knife fighting, whatever that particular martial artists called. But this guy and the reason I know him is he used to work with me when I was boxing. He used to work with me on my footwork and stuff. But one of the most dangerous men ever because he could work an angle on you and I'm 6364 He's five foot six, five foot seven. And if I throw a punch To him, he'd be behind me with his knee and my calf and have me screaming. Yeah. But if you ever talked to them in smiles, small, soft spoken, never raised his voice. And I know from people who have gotten him to talk, some of the stuff he did was frightening, was absolutely frightening. Yeah. Those guys, there were special, special breed of man. Anybody that volunteered to go into a to a time.

John Paulus: 40:25

I never volunteered for that job.

Kevin Donaldson: 40:27

I don't blame you. Don't blame me.

Mike Failace: 40:29

Some people were voluntold.

Kevin Donaldson: 40:31

Yeah. Like you were voluntold to go to Vietnam. Yeah. What was the worst battle? The worst?

John Paulus: 40:39

Probably LZ loon was the worst, sir. My company was in LZ. Loon. Yeah, talk to us about that. It was three days, June 4, fifth, and sixth. And we went in there just to give support for putting artillery on the hills. Because at the end, VA was bombing us from Laos, in our positions from Laos, and so we were supposed to get some artillery nerve to knock some of that stuff out. And on the on the fifth day, is when we noticed that there was lot NVA all around us. So they, they attacked us. And the captain, isn't it Skepta neg, Ron, he couldn't get a coordinates on them, though. We can get him coordinates exactly where they're at.

Kevin Donaldson: 41:23

So you just see flashes coming. Yeah, that's pretty much I mean,

John Paulus: 41:26

but so they got a broken through our lines, that they also on fit on that. And he told password, or everybody cut down on your hole, which are foxholes, and he called over artillery that would burst right above our holes. And that's really what saved the day because it killed the NVA and back them off. The first

Kevin Donaldson: 41:47

friend who you were close with that you lost. Today, I feel like

John Paulus: 41:53

it's your lucky it's not you. I feel it's you know, I feel bad for real bad for my buddy, you know, but could have been me too. I had a Did you

Kevin Donaldson: 42:02

feel any sort of obligation to get a word back to his family or anything like that?

John Paulus: 42:07

If so, so fast, everything was going on? You know, you didn't get you moved to get moving. So

Mike Failace: 42:14

you still had a job to do?

John Paulus: 42:15

Yeah, yeah. I'll give you an answer. We I was coming in on a helicopter, the C 46. And they ambushed us. And the pilot said we're going to blend into the hot zone. And he said he couldn't land. He says you got to get out. Everybody jump out and out. Now get out now. And as I was getting out, I was like, maybe it was like 18 Marines. I was like the fifth marine out. And I just have to look back like that. And I saw the NVA pop up with an RPG round. Right into the cockpit. Yeah. Yeah. And it's started explode with the helicopter started to explode. And I jumped as I jumped off. I remember a piece of shrapnel about as big as a wheel went flying, right bass Meyer. And I tripped over another Marine. I grabbed him by a strap. And I started running I was wanting to but I mean, we're shooting at us with 60 caliber machine guns. They are big rounds, man. They hit like and I and they were dropping mortars on a stoop because they were all the hills around us. We land on one hill. They're all around us. So I grabbed the by the strap. And next thing I knew I was fall rolling into a big hole. And I didn't realize at first when I realized was a B 52 bomb crater that blew up that big hole. And it wasn't really a bomb crater. I'd be dead today.

Kevin Donaldson: 43:41

It was the other marine. Yeah,

John Paulus: 43:42

he had the ring got in the back. He was he was deceased. He I helped him he rolled down on me on the back. Yeah. Ka gets killed in action. But so I I mean, I picked my head up. I've done my pick my head up. That pastor he wanted me you know, and he was a platoon and then the shrapnel is flying. And the shrapnel blows you know so hot. And I tell you I kept my face down. It was mud down the bottom of my face right at mud.

Kevin Donaldson: 44:08

Any any chance that you had the idea in your mind? Well, this is it. Yeah, this is it. Oh, yeah. I sure was what was your thoughts?

Mike Failace: 44:17

to prayer and hope for the best? Yeah,

John Paulus: 44:19

yeah. You know, I, I was I was leery about, you know, when he said as a Hot Zone, everybody off, off off right then and there. You know, holy shit, you know, here we go, you know. But when I was down at Bama Hall, I tell you, I just couldn't get lower low enough. And I felt bad for the guy above me on me. But I didn't know who he was or never to this day. Because what happened is the we finally regrouped. And they called in artillery on all the hills around and napalm and that got them off and quiet it up. And we regrouped. And we moved to next hilltop. And we dug our perimeter foxholes around our perimeter, and we sat in for the night

Kevin Donaldson: 45:00

Now, this sounds awful. It really does. It sounds awful. But I'm sure come

Mike Failace: 45:06

from you. I expected the ones that I said coming from you. I expected though. Oh god.

Kevin Donaldson: 45:12

No, I said this experience sounds awful

Mike Failace: 45:15

either you said what you were gonna say sounds awful.

John Paulus: 45:19

You so when appropriate. So when appropriate. This is one of my nightmares I have all the time, you know, comes back flashbacks. Yeah,

Mike Failace: 45:25

absolutely. I could imagine.

Kevin Donaldson: 45:27

But there were, I'm sure. Because you're with your brothers. I'm sure it wasn't all rounds over the head. I'm sure you left. Because you have to. You just saw some really serious stuff. So I'm sure there was some good times you had with the people around?

John Paulus: 45:42

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we, you know, we were inland in the area that I don't think nobody's ever was ever there. We found this. So rock formation that was hollowed out from yours with water coming down. And we all got we put centuries around and we all got naked when and we're having a blast. Like at the beach, you know? Yeah. Get a wild hogs

Mike Failace: 46:02

moment. And Vietnam, you can say is that? Is that like what I mean? You're talking about all these terrible moments that one of your funniest moments or,

John Paulus: 46:09

say, one of my funniest moments with the

Kevin Donaldson: 46:12

I'm not sure I'd Skinny Dip in Vietnam. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Marines are a special breed abuse

John Paulus: 46:17

was clean. It was clean, pristine. We were in some bad waters, and a lot of leeches and stuff. But this was a clean area was really nice. I am What was that question again?

Mike Failace: 46:29

The funniest thing that I like, like Kevin said there had to be there was a lot of things.

John Paulus: 46:35

That pitcher I brought in with those bananas. You know, I had I cut them off. I was like, you know, I was fascinated. Wow. You know, there's only two little guys, you know. So he said, Well, if you put them on your backpack, they'll turn yellow, and it'll be good to eat. So I put on my backpack. And I walked home for two days. When I sat down that night, not sat down, we sat we dug a foxhole on a perimeter. And I just started my C rations. I said I'm gonna have I'm gonna have some bananas as soon as I got my first banana. I'm not Kenya I don't know where else he came from hundreds of monkeys. Anywhere vicious, man. They want my bananas. I only weigh got out. There's I had to throw my bananas out.

Kevin Donaldson: 47:18

What was worse NBA,

Mike Failace: 47:20

the NBA is coming from one side monkeys on the other. You know,

Kevin Donaldson: 47:23

because the reason I asked that is, is when you go through those critical incidents, the thing that gets you through it the quickest is laughter. Because as as police officers, we left more than I can tell you. But we also did some really serious things. And I've heard from other people who've been involved in war, the same thing that that downtime is when the good times happen. That's just as memorable as the horror. Yeah. But eventually, you can't do this forever. You know, you're going to rotate home.

John Paulus: 47:54

Yeah. Well, you know, today I told you about that reunion. We went we just like last week. And he's wrong, guys. A lot of guys were with me. And so we talked about things that you know, I was talking to this one guy, and his name is Terry Tillery. And he was I said, Terry, I got a quick question. I get this my mind. I mean, so all these years

Kevin Donaldson: 48:13

we Terry Tillery his parents shouldn't need them are.

Mike Failace: 48:17

When he said Tillery. I was like

John Paulus: 48:21

I said to Terry, because he got to the same time I got to Vietnam. So we were together for a while. So I said, Terry, this really happened. I told him an incident. You know, it was Yep. John, it did happen, you know. So, I mean, it was nice to talk to you guys. And just to refresh your memory that yes, it did happen.

Mike Failace: 48:41

I mean, suddenly your recollection of it may be different from someone else's reflection of it. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and the more you think about it, the more your mind plays games on you. And you may Yeah, you may skew your own facts.

John Paulus: 48:52

We we different on it. You know, we were supposed to hit this. Goku is in a tree. And we're supposed to bring up to him 79, the blooper type? And we said he said, I got up. I said, Oh, I thought I got

Kevin Donaldson: 49:07

no, eventually you find out Vietnam is coming to an end for you. And was there it was there a feeling like just I gotta make it a couple more days. I gotta make it a couple more days. When you knew the end was coming. Oh, did they take you out of the heavy action

John Paulus: 49:21

in November of 68. The I got my r&r. I waited to get on board. I wanted to go to Australia. So I had enough of the slides and one of those goes back to the right girl show. So we we had a blast over there. And I had this I got I got this I got too wrapped up in one of these women over there. And she was writing these letters you know for like six months afterwards she'll think and I was gonna go back but yeah, when I came back and they put me right back out with my my unit again the bush you know, and I said, Man, it was it depressed. I mean, I just got you know, Weird Whiskey a Go Go dancing, having a good old time, you know? Yeah. And then I'm back out there again, you know. And meantime, I'm thinking that she's in love with me. You know what?

Kevin Donaldson: 50:11

She was looking for a meal ticket back home.

John Paulus: 50:13

So that's why I call my mom. When I got to Okinawa. She said, Johnny, that's what she wants. She wants to come back to America, you know?

Kevin Donaldson: 50:19

Yeah. So you finally step on that transport back home? Joy, was it was it sadness, because you leaving people behind? What was that like?

John Paulus: 50:31

Now? It was sad that we're leaving some guys behind that I knew real well, they had more time they do it to be there. But it was really joy to know you get no you didn't realize it didn't feel until you really got to open our, you know, like, a sense of relief to Yeah, no big big relief by you know, your any minute you were so afraid that they're gonna hit this plane, you know, going out, you know, but I made back to a p&l. Now, while

Kevin Donaldson: 50:55

you were over in country. Did you hear of any of the issues going on at home with the protesters? Or was that kept from you?

John Paulus: 51:02

They did have the stars and stripes. And but Stars and

Kevin Donaldson: 51:05

Stripes was trying to keep your hearts and minds. Yeah,

John Paulus: 51:08

I don't really call you know, we didn't talk about it much. You know, we didn't talk about much, and I don't recall hearing much about it. And it was probably a good thing, because it would have made me more more sour.

Mike Failace: 51:18

I was gonna say when he came back, was it a hero's welcome? No, or you were up against

Kevin Donaldson: 51:23

you stepped the hippies, you step off the plane was stepped

John Paulus: 51:25

off the plane in Newark. Yeah. And the plane, and in Newark, even back then, we had a circle around for a while, because he couldn't commit land that was crowded. So and there was a lot of turbulence. So like, I don't know, for an hour. We did. Up and down, up and down and turbulence, you know, so I get off the plane. My whole family is waiting for me go my first and my mom says Johnny, you're yellow. I swim. Well. I was up in that plane, like a roller coaster.

Kevin Donaldson: 51:52

Get off the plane. you puke? The kids in the ground? Yeah,

John Paulus: 51:55

I didn't do it. But oh, you know, it's close to it. Yeah. But anyway, but no, they they greeted me there was my whole family. That was beautiful. It's such a nice shirt. It's

Mike Failace: 52:03

something I'll never forget. ever forget. Never forget my

John Paulus: 52:05

little brother. Two years old was arrogant. I was so nice. But I really what it started was when I go out somewhere, you know, you

Kevin Donaldson: 52:15

had a two year old brother

Mike Failace: 52:16

and say that's probably the first time you met him when you when you landed

Kevin Donaldson: 52:18

now. Oops.

John Paulus: 52:19

I know. I know. I was I knew him before because, you know, as homey leave. Yeah, it was. So But anyway, I, I, I would go places, you know, and I wanted to talk about what I did what was going on, you know, nobody wanted to hear. Nobody want to hear. So I met my wife in January of 69. And she was always been interested what I did, you know, so I had heard to share my thoughts and my feelings, and it worked out pretty good. But I went to Middlesex County College. And I was in a history class there. And this teacher with long hair, and he had to bell bottoms. And they really said he's the head of this democratic society here. You know? So, so Okay, so now he's telling all these kids, you know, they're like, 17 years old, 18 year olds, I'm like, already 21 Now, right? He's telling all these kids that how bad our country is growing your draft cards, refused to go into the service. He goes, rushes this and rushes that, and the guy next to me was in the Navy. And he says to me, John, she just got back convinced you believe with this guy saying here? Yeah, that just pissed me off. I went up to the front of the classroom. I put my finger in his face. But I told myself, this is not right. These kids are all I was watching his kids are going like that, you know, as you his kids are all green, what you're saying is not right. When I split my country, that everybody should be obligated to go to service, whether it's right or wrong, or country causes you got to go. So he called me out to the hall. And he apologized for saying that he told me he would promise to never say it again. And he didn't.

Kevin Donaldson: 54:00

And so you change somebody's mind. You're suffering change somebody's mind. Yeah. And that's what it's there for.

John Paulus: 54:06

Right? And I got a good grade. You know, I don't think I was doing good in that class. But I got a good grade.

Kevin Donaldson: 54:12

It's a shame that you know, during that war, and I don't think it's happened since Vietnam, not to my knowledge, not on a grand scale, like it did in Vietnam, where we're soldiers coming back from battle, step off the plane into another war that happens at home.

Mike Failace: 54:27

I mean, soldiers are coming back from Vietnam, they're being spit on. Yeah. Well, I mean,

John Paulus: 54:31

you know, I have some, not everybody got spit on, you know, I mean, there's stories about that out there, you know, but some did, yeah, someday, but not everybody. But I think that the worst thing was, you know, all these demonstrations going on, you know, I get out of class and I walk into the courtyard. Every quarter, there was a demonstration against Vietnam, you know, while the students and how's the guy feel that just got done serving his country? You know,

Mike Failace: 54:57

I'm sure you were filled with like post traumatic stress and You know, you and you were probably just about to snap at that point. Yeah. And to see these people fighting you being the proud American and fighting for your country and coming home being an honored, you know, military veteran at this point. Yeah. That's gasoline on the fire. These people are just stoking you right now.

Kevin Donaldson: 55:17

Yeah. So the story I heard is I used to work with a guy who was in. He was in Vietnam before we were in Vietnam. You know, all his mail got routed through Texas. His mother thought he was in Texas, but he's got pictures of himself in Vietnam. And so he he was there when the war officially started. When he came home, there was a woman who spit on. And he told me this once because I got real close to this guy. She spit on him, and he punched him right in the nose. Like dead square in the nose

Mike Failace: 55:45

justified? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely justified homicide. For me, anyway. Yeah. So

Kevin Donaldson: 55:52

that stress that post traumatic stress that you felt, you're just a kid,

John Paulus: 55:57

I still feel it.

Kevin Donaldson: 55:58

What how do you deal? How do you cope? Because our suffering podcasts all about giving people tools? Yeah. On how to deal with certain events in their life and how you dealt with it personally? How did you deal with it?

John Paulus: 56:10

Well, I am, I was workaholic. And, you know, I was my own business for 36 years. So I was so busy work, and I'd work a lot hours, maybe like 16, sometimes hours a day, 12 hours a day, you know, I was a restaurant, restaurant business. And I was so busy doing all that, that. I didn't get to think about that. So it was really for me.

Kevin Donaldson: 56:33

That's the same thing. Bob Gibson said, Yeah, we as Bob Gibson, World War Two veteran of D Day Battle of the Bulge. What did you do? How did you get through it when you got back stateside? And he said the same thing. He goes, You got to get to work. You got

Mike Failace: 56:46

to get the words right. And I don't mind is Devil's Playground. Where him

Kevin Donaldson: 56:49

him and I when we had our events, we couldn't work. Yeah. It's almost counterintuitive to what the what the people who came before us said to get through it.

Mike Failace: 56:58

Yeah, you got to keep yourself busy. I've been retired for six years now. And I've worked I'm working more now retired than it was when I was working because I have to keep busy. Right? You know, if I have too much downtime, if I have a day off coming up, I get like me anxiety thinking about the day off? I'm like, Yeah,

John Paulus: 57:12

same way to this day, you know, I don't want to get laid up for a month or two months, or, you know, I'll deal with what I got, rather than, you know, telling me I got to not do any firm one. It's crazy. Lay it lay in

Kevin Donaldson: 57:24

bed for two weeks, you look like you spent a good portion of your life taking care of your body, you're in great shape. You've, you've survived what some would say, the most unpopular war in American history, doing what you had to do serving your country doing your duty, with honor. And my hat's off to you because, you know, a lesser man I think might have broke when they came home and got done fight one more and had to fight another.

John Paulus: 57:50

Well, I know people turn turned alcoholics, you know, big time. There was a lot of suicide after I saw him sign alcoholics, you know, and I have a good friend they came back got Agent Orange, good friend. And he asked me been his wedding. We got back and he used to come to my restaurant talk to me all the time. When they call up. I says, Okay, I talked already already. He's not here anymore. That's what I mean. He's not here. He died. Sweet died from what? Complications Agent Orange. So, I mean, it's, it's it's shocking when you find out stuff that you don't, but I am. Like I said, I keep myself busy. And I do I exercise a lot, you know. And I made myself a little man cave. And

Kevin Donaldson: 58:34

the little safe place. Yeah. So actually, what I like to call it is the Batcave. Yeah, to get away from wives. To help me, sorry. I'm so sorry. I mean, it's lovely wife is sitting out there. And

Mike Failace: 58:47

I know you've seen a lot of stuff. You know, and and I'm sure you relive it all the time. Like you said, you still think about it. Is there one certain thing that you think about, like all the time, one certain thing from Vietnam that really sticks with you? Yeah.

John Paulus: 59:05

We're on patrol. And the guy in front of us machine gunner, right. And, you know, I tell you the jungle so thick, you look that good. You see it? And I don't know where bamboo Viper, you swung down a bit, the guy and the arm. And they you know, they tell you to step or man, take two steps. You're dead, you know. So he hit the ground. And I was first there right behind. So I put a tourniquet on it just above his elbow. And I call the corpsman up, corpsman put a couple of cuts in there a squeeze out as much like I suppose he could, but this guy started flopping like a fish. You know, right here in front of me. And he's looking at me interfacial like eyes wide open you know like a helped me look. Yeah, I was so I was so to say I feel bad about because we have them in front of me. And I couldn't have done anything about it because I didn't see it till it came down last minute, you know, but I did kill the sacred machete afterwards, but we I tried to get him in We thought Comey says he's dead, right. So we brought her body back, put him in a body bag. And I felt so bad. So we went to the landing zone where the chopper was going to come in. medivac come out, and it was like bamboo trees. So you couldn't have him come in. And it was on a saber. We were always excited freaking hills. And you couldn't get them out because the bamboo stumps were there. But we tried. I try like heck, you know, four or five times to try to get him into the chopper come down to see 46 is long ones with the backdrop down like that, and it would come in, and we Hoover, Hoover, Hoover, Hoover, and we throw it in sort of body in mixed Hooven. Who were Who was your body? Hakuna good. Finally, the fourth time, we got him in there. And for all those years, I felt so bad about that. I still feel bad about it. I wish I could have killed that snake first. But I I felt so bad about my buddy. I just laners put his eyes die with his eyes open a set. So I go to reunion, like last year, because these have these reunions every year. This guy gets his. He did well. And he fights all the guys up and Charlie Company. And we have a great time. But anyway, we're talking about these incident. And I said it did anybody remember the guy that was hit by a snake? Oh, I was there. You were. I saw I was right behind him. He goes nice behind you. And then it goes, I was in front of the when it happened, you know? So we'll get Holy moly. And then the we have a historian of our Charlie coming. He comes over he goes now John. He went to a dining airport and a zipped open the bag and he was alive. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Holy. She was I thought he died.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:43

He's when he shows up. Really? No, no, it was me in the bag. It was me in the back.

John Paulus: 1:01:48

But he wasn't there because he died later.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:01:51

So if you had your advice of what you've gone through both both in the war after the war in dealing with the stress of war, if you were to speak to a younger person ready to go into the service ready to go into war, what do you think is some advice that you could give them?

John Paulus: 1:02:08

It depends what kind of guy he is. I mean, if he's motivated about a country, he's more worried about a beat about motivated about being gone home? Yeah, I mean, go for it. You know, you want to be a Marine, you want to be recon, you want to be a Navy Seal, you know, go for it. You know, it's it's personal pride, you know, so I would say that. And I would say that. If it's if your country says they need you, and you're an American citizen, I mean, it's our duty. Correct? That's what I'd say. I agree.

Mike Failace: 1:02:38

I agree. 100%.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:02:40

Is there anything that you want to throw out there for a plug? I know you belong to the VFW and Glenn Garner. They've been so good to us. We've been down there. They're wonderful bunch of people. Anything you want to plug.

John Paulus: 1:02:50

I just think that the Glen garden in VFW and Glen Gardner is probably the best post around run the best. Yeah, and Jays. Wonderful. JJ has done a great job. And he's got to put people on the board. And I happen to be the chaplain there. So very, yeah, very nice. And they will keep me about being father. But hey, somebody had to do so raise my hand. You know,

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:13

I look father Mulcahy of the VFW and Glen Gardner. Yeah,

Mike Failace: 1:03:16

you don't volunteer to be a total rat, but you've volunteered bullets flying?

John Paulus: 1:03:22

Yeah, yeah. So no, I would plug the VFW doing a great job. They have a lot of good functions going on. It's one of the more stuff in New Jersey I think is one of the best.

Mike Failace: 1:03:33

We'll tell you. We had a great time when we were down there that night, though. They treat they treat us like gold really did.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:03:39

So we're coming to this. We're coming to the end that is staying here. And you've been through things that I can't imagine. You fought in one of the only unpopular wars in the United States history. You've seen a lot of suffering on many different levels. What do you think it's taught you? When I think what do you think your this suffering has taught you?

John Paulus: 1:04:00

It's taught me. So let me be thankful for my life. thankful that I'm here. thankful for my family. thankful that I was able to be have successful business. And thankful that to that I have two great grandsons and my daughter. You know, I'm very thankful for all that.

Mike Failace: 1:04:20

Do you think your experience in the Marine Corps and in Vietnam gave you the work ethic to run your business?

John Paulus: 1:04:28

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was like, they everywhere you say I could tell you in the Marines, you know, they say the way you run this place, you

Kevin Donaldson: 1:04:38

have all your cooks had their shoes, polished mirrors, mirrors, yeah,

John Paulus: 1:04:41

we all wear uniforms, you know, and you wear black shoes and you wear the white aprons in the back. You know, I tell a quick story. I had this one guy was cooking back then we're busy. I mean, we'd have 45 minute wait almost every night of the week. And after a while, people somehow they get cocky with you when you know you need them that bad. So I'd go back and I say, Hey, I said, where's the food and eat the food, get it a little faster, you know? So he took a big knife and he starts pounding his, he'll get it. One I'm done. So what I do, I went over, I got a bigger knife. And I came back and I said, I want it now. right in his face. And you know what? He stopped and he got busy again.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:05:19

That's, that's there's a lot of value to military service. It teaches you a lot of life lessons that I don't think you can learn anywhere else. You can't learn that in college. You now know. John, thank you so much for coming in here today. This has been this has been amazing. And again, Kev. This is an episode for us. Yes, this, this is another one for us. This is another one of us. We need to get somebody from Korea in here and be nice because we get somebody from Korea and here we're going to put together a whole military series. Yeah. So we're going to talk afterwards. Okay. All right. Sounds great. John, thank you so much.

John Paulus: 1:05:49

Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:05:51

That's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast. As always, we talk about what we learned. reality hits hard just like a hammer. November 10. Should be a national holiday.

John Paulus: 1:06:02

No, they do have a national holiday for Vietnam veterans now.

Kevin Donaldson: 1:06:06

Yes, but I'm talking about him or 10th specifically for the Marine Corps he should duty is the highest honor, skinny dipping in Vietnam might not have been the best idea in the world. One more is enough for anybody to fight but most importantly, be thankful. That's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast follow us on social media Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok. Follow mike on Instagram at Mike underscore Falaise. Follow me a real Kevin Donaldson follow the suffering podcast at the suffering podcast and we're gonna see you on the next episode.