Episode 79: The Suffering of An Ex-Con Filmaker with Seth Ferranti

No matter what Seth chose to do in his life, he would’ve been successful. In seeking the intoxicating feeling of being the best, Seth chose a path that resulted in him serving 21 years of a 25 year sentence. Seth chose to use his time wisely receiving multiple college degrees, starting a publishing house, and penning 25 books. After his release, Seth took that wisely used time and energy to create films and documentaries. Now having his work featured on Netflix and various other media outlets, Seth has reshaped his life into exactly what it should’ve been in the beginning.

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Transcript

0:00  
Sit your ass down down. Sit your ass down, down. Let's talk about soccer. It's time to stop Sit down sit down and strap in this is gonna let's talk about suffering suffering. It's time to start the pain, the pain. This is gone. It's time for the sufferings podcast podcast. If you had all the time in the world, what would you do with it? Would you read, educate yourself, find a new vocation exercise, or waste away with some much needed rest. We move in this life so fast, that we often have little or no time to sit and think we reorganize the path and the direction that our life was taken to pump the brakes on our busy lives. Suddenly, an event happens that forces us to look at our lives from an elevated position on the battlefield. When that time comes, it's frequently too late to change the past. Here is your moment to shine, or live with regret. The smart ones choose to change the trajectory and move forward using their past to reshape their future. And welcome back to another episode of the suffering Podcast. I'm Kevin Johnson here with Mike Felice. And on this episode of the suffering podcast, we sit down with Seth Ferranti to discuss the suffering of an ex con filmmaker, because that's pretty much what you are. Seth, thank you so much for joining us coming all this way from California. Appreciate it.

2:02  
Yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

2:03  
I mean, it's it's an odd mixture, you know, ex con filmmaker,

2:07  
ex con filmmaker. Well, you get to redefine your terms, I guess as you get older.

2:12  
Yeah, you know, I kind of I mean, I am ex con and in filmmaker, but like, kind of, I kind of been trying to brand myself like the outlaw filmmaker, you know, like, my company is called outlaw films, right? You know, my parent company is called, like, Gorilla convict that's from the publishing house I formed while I was in, but, uh, yeah, I don't know, I just see it. Like, you got so many people in the film industry that they want to come to crime, you know, either from the cop side or the criminal side. And if any of us can even get involved as like a consultant, you know, like, we're lucky.

2:44  
Well, that's, that's why because you have a certain perspective. I want to get into this later on the show because you have a perspective on say, a crime show that these producers they're not going to because we see it from a police standpoint, where when you make a police movie, Mike and I watch that police movie within two seconds, say you're full of shit, you didn't do your research. Alright, before we get into anything, let's get into this week's social media question, but I do want to thank Toyota of Hackensack. Listen, Toyota Hackensack always treats us very well. I buy my cars there. And if you're looking for quiet, let them help you find a car. They're always honest or upfront as cops we don't trust anybody. But I do trust the people at Toyota of Hackensack go to Toyota hackensack.com and they'll help you out. So this week's social media question comes from Ken every week. We take some in some of them are. I'm going to tell you right now, some of them are out there, but this one's actually pretty good. It says, Ken writes, What have you always hoped you've done in your life? So you're our guest today? Seth, what's one thing that you've always hoped that you've done? Maybe you didn't get a chance to do it yet?

3:41  
Yeah, I think I think my biggest thing and I think I kind of live my life like this is um, I just tried to you know, complete what I set out to do, you know, so finish the task. Yeah. So I mean, and this is ongoing you know, it started with like articles books now film so I'm just trying you know, it's like a continual thing. I like to make stuff I like to create stuff. So you know, once I take a project on or I decide to do something, I just want to finish it, you know, so it's kind of like, keeping my word you know, to people but also keeping my word to myself.

4:09  
I like that answer. I like that answer a lot. Mike, what do you think?

4:13  
Well, I mean, growing up I never really hoped to do a podcast with you but here I am stuck doing it I I always hoped to be a football player but then I realized those too short and too slow

4:25  
usually got to be about five to to play football.

4:27  
See that's fucked up one thing I really want to do in my life

4:35  
like jump out of an airplane. I did it that's like a bucket list thing of mine but at 56 You know my bones are a little brittle and I don't

4:43  
so you'll go tandem. So the first time you jump you'll go tandem. I don't want a guy strapped to my back like that. You will get power fucked into the ground if that parachute doesn't open. Oh, yeah. What? And usually the guys was strapped to the back. You smell so bad. They always do

4:58  
if they come out with some light got like a woman that will hang on my back? Then maybe I'll do it. For me,

5:05  
it's real simple. I have zero. I always consider myself very creative, but I have zero musical ability. I always wanted to learn how to play the piano so years ago, I can type very fast. My grandmother was a government Secretary on a manual typewriter. She used to do over 200 words a minute. So I learned from her and I can type very fast. So I figured, hey, I can type I can learn to play the piano. There was never an more untrue statement than that. Because the piano and the typewriter are exact opposite. So if I, and it's not too late, I can do it now. And everybody says that it gets a little easier as you get older by always wanting to learn how to play piano or guitar or some musical instrument because I do love music. It's real simple. Ken, thank you so much for sending that question. And keep sending them in. We'll try to get them on the air.

5:47  
Because if you get in a bed, I'm not coming to see you. I could just put you on stage. That big fat body bouncing all around translate.

5:56  
See, he's all pissed off today. He didn't he didn't have his his Cheerios this morning or something. Seth, I have done a lot of reading about you. And it's in the reason I picked out ex con filmmakers because I think I read a website. Right? That's, that's where they, that's how they characterize you. But I want you to give our audience a little bit of window into who you are where you grew up.

6:19  
Yeah, well, I was born and raised in California. I was born in Lemoore. It's actually between San Diego la out in the desert. They call it the Central Coast. I was actually born on a military base out there. That's where they trained like the the fighter pilots, you know, out in the desert. So if they crash, you know, like sound gun, right? Yeah. So, so, um, and then, you know, but my dad was in the military. So, you know, we kind of bounced around, I was a military brat. But, you know, like we were saying a year ago, but I also lived in Germany. I lived in England, you know, I lived Virginia Beach, you know, Rhode Island, Monterey, San Jose,

6:56  
that was at like, a young age where you bounce around all that? Yeah, basically, every two years, you know, be tough, like making friends. And,

7:04  
like, see you later. Yeah. I mean, it's weird, because I think everything that I do, because I got like, you know, as a creative person, I got like, this big thing for recognition. Like, I'm always craving recognition. That's why like, I make shit and put it out to the world. And I think it all stems you know, I'm 51. Now, so I've thought about it a lot. And I think it stems from that, you know, moving around every two years. And, you know, as soon as I get a group of friends that people knew who I am, it's like, we would move again. So

7:29  
So you have to create your whole new world reestablish yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So

7:33  
so, you know, as a young man, or as a, as a kid, you know, and even a teenager was, you know, it, it led to a lot of insecurity, you know, on the inside, not nothing outwardly that people could see. But, uh, yeah, I've done a lot of, you know, recollecting and kind of introspection, and I think that's kind of like, that's my whole thing. I want people to know who I am. So like, I try to create these, you know, grand work of art, you know, they're going to have an impact. And so everybody's going to know my name. So

8:01  
well, it's better to know your name for your works of art. And instead of your former life,

8:05  
you know, I mean, there's got to be a good part about that, you know, you look up at a girl and it's like a hit and run, you know, I hook up with her, she starts getting serious and all of a sudden, he's I gotta go

8:13  
so grown up in California. And being in California. Now you in California have the most interesting street signs. I don't know whether they're still up there. I know. They were up there in 2000. When I was out in San Diego, the three people crossing the road. Are they still

8:26  
up? Man? I don't think

8:30  
so. When I when I was in San Diego, you're driving down was at five going north south. They had street signs when he got closer to the Mexican border. Three people in like a running it's like a school crossing sign but PP three people running so I asked somebody well, what's the signing? Because because people are coming over the border and they're running across route five and they're getting whacked. I said it was the strangest streets street sign I've ever seen in my life. But yet California is like a whole different world. How do you like living out there?

8:59  
And I love California because I love the mountains. So I'm like, you know, I love to ski. I just love to be in the mountain. So but you know, I also love the beach. So California is pretty much the only place you can be where you can go from the mountains and you know, three hours and you're at the beach so

9:17  
you could like lay on a beach all day and go skiing at night in California. Yeah, it's

9:21  
incredible. And I'm even like where I live now. I live I live in Chico and it's kind of like the valley. It's like farm community. It's between the Sierra Nevadas and it's between the coastal mountains. And it's just the weather man. Like I just go out. Like I can go sit in my backyard. It's like 75 degrees. That was San Diego. Yes. And it goes like that too. Yeah, like weather.

9:42  
I never seen anything like it. I don't think I slept more than three hours. The whole three weeks. I was out there because I just didn't want to miss anything. Unless I San Diego I had a hotel room. I was right at the bridge of Coronado. I couldn't ask for better thing. But California it's it's an odd place and everybody classifies Cal Fornia by LA, like, that's what Elton now San Francisco. So California does get a bad

10:05  
rap. I know you've been to San Francisco.

10:08  
Stay in LA and LA LA is LA is a clusterfuck I don't, you know, I gotta go to LA a lot, you know, because like a lot of friends in the industry there. So, you know, I'm there. I'm there, you know, at least once every two months, but it's just the traffic man, I cannot stand it. There's so many people there, man. It's crazy.

10:25  
Well, now it's got the bad homeless situation there. And it's sort of the city's got to do something because like I've

10:30  
seen, like pictures of like Muscle Beach and all the Venice Beach and why it's like a homeless heaven.

10:35  
When I when I went out

10:36  
there, that's a place I had to go. They got all the crazy people out there to actually I love I love Venice Beach man, because it's kind of a, I mean, it's beautiful. It's California, but at the same time, it has like that real seedy element. And like, you never know what's gonna happen. But, you know, like I say, you know, some people don't like to, I like to go, I like to go there and walk around. But you know, I'm not scared that anybody's gonna do anything to me. So, but the

10:57  
vast majority of California's like you said, mountains, deserts, beauty beaches. It's beautiful. It really is beautiful out there. It just gets a little.

11:05  
And it's so it's so big man. It's like do like I live in Chico. So Chico is basically between San Francisco and Lake Tahoe. Right? in like two and a half hours to Tahoe. Two and a half hours to Frisco, right? Maybe about, I don't know, eight hours from LA. But then like, you can go like, like, you go all the way up north, like into the Emerald triangle. That's like five hours. And it just goes it's like straight mountains on the coast. It just goes, you know, for like hours and hours before you get to Oregon. So and then that's not even talking about like, you go to LA it's like a you know, another couple hours down to San Diego. So the state is just so big. It's like it's really almost like its own country.

11:43  
Yeah, well, that's why it's got so much pull in the whole world because of its size. So you grew up in these military bases. And your father was your son when your father was military? Yeah. What was he? No, he was a Marine. He was a Marine. Okay. So you somehow get involved in this life a crime? I don't. I've grown up with military kids before. And they don't usually go one way or the other, that you're their altar strict, or they just take that other road. How did you you know,

12:11  
we see that in law enforcement to most most of the bed kids out there are cops, kids,

12:15  
yo, for parties, the best part? We're cops and fireworks so far, because we've confiscated government,

12:21  
it's given to the kids.

12:23  
So how did you go down this this other path?

12:27  
Yeah, I think, you know, I was just, you know, it's from the whole thing, like, like, moving around, right? I kind of figured out like, when I was 13. You know, I wanted people to know who I am. I wanted that acceptance, like I crave that recognition. You know, so, like, when I was 13, and I just kind of started experimenting with marijuana, I started experimenting with like psychedelics like LSD, mushrooms, stuff like that. And, and I was always the kid, you know, that I could go and I was a bold, brash kid, so I would get this stuff. So you know, everybody wants to party, you know, they put pull their money together, and I was the one that would actually go score. You know, so I figured out really quick. You know, within the first couple of years doing this, by the time I was 15, that I was like, you know, like, I can get high for free. You know, and after I figured this out, then it was like another realization probably by the time I was like, 16, I was like, I can get high for free. And I can make money. You know, and then

13:25  
it gave you acceptance in that group. Well, yeah, cuz then you didn't have moving around the whole time.

13:30  
The next evolution in this was like, you know, I figured out like, okay, if I'm the guy that's bringing the weed and psychedelics, I'm like, then I'm like a rock star. Like, everybody knows my name. Everybody's waiting for me to go to the party. So I'm saying this was like a three year thing, you know, that took me to, you know, this transition, you know, from 1314 1516, where I had these kind of realizations. And then by the time I was 16, I was like, man, I was like, this is you know, everybody knows who I am now, this is what I wanted. This is what I craved. All you know, all the girls know who I am.

14:03  
That was an old Young. That's that's what attracted George Young.

14:06  
Yeah, it's a popularity. You know, it really you

14:09  
got some money now, you know,

14:10  
I never thought I don't know why I've never put that together. Like, you always wonder why people get into dealing or doing something on the drug side. It makes perfect sense. Now, it really does make sense. And but that's why I love doing this show. Because I get to see that different perspective on things.

14:26  
Yeah. So by the time I'm 16, I'm basically I'm like a rock star, you know, but I'm not a rock star. But I'm a rock star. Because you know, I go, like, even the older the older people like 1819 20 You know, the people that graduated the people in college, they're still waiting for me. You know,

14:43  
I'm the one you're gonna invited all the college parties and

14:45  
stuff. I mean, I'm the one and whatever it is about me out because I was always bold, brash, like I was big, too. Like,

14:52  
I was gonna say, You're a big guy now. Are you bigger than two like 13 I

14:55  
was six one by the time I was 13. And I was already shaving it 13 You know, I mean, Honestly, I was a young man. So I was a lot skinnier. You know, I mean, you know, you as you get older, you know, you gain weight, you know, you get bigger plus, you know, I did 21 years in prison, so I did a lot of weightlifting and working out and shit like that. But, uh, yeah, but I just always, you know, like, I was the type of kid like, when I was 14, I was dating like, 1617 year olds, you know, and it was all you know, because I was a bigger dude. But it was all because of how I carried myself and the access I got, because like, I'll tell you, I was 17 I would go down. I'm in Northern Virginia at this point. By the time I was 17, my dad actually retired. And he was working in the Pentagon, for defense contractor. So I would I would fly down when I was 17, to Texas, Dallas, Texas. And through like mutual friends down there that went to college down there, I hooked up with like a Mexican national, who had like a trucking company, and he was bringing it like Britpop, right? And he would get it up to Dallas. And I'll go down there and like, you know, I went down there, and I maybe had enough money to buy like, you know, 10 pounds or 20 pounds, which you were talking like, $400 each. So you're talking about maybe four to eight grand?

16:04  
Yeah, but pure though, right? You can.

16:06  
I mean, it's, I mean, I don't know, you don't really cut weed up, you know what I mean? weed is weed, you know, it's break pot. It's like, it's not that we back then compared to the wheat we have now was garbage. You know, the brick pot was garbage. You know, but it was only thing that was coming in at that time. You know, except in the fall, when they would have the harvest, I can the Emerald triangle or Kentucky you get good we for about three months. But uh, I was going down there and whatever it was about me, you know, like, my confidence or whatever. Like, I convinced this dude, you know, to basically give me like, you know, from me, like 50 or 100 pounds, I packed it in a suitcase, you know, flew back up, checked it. And when it went right to DC National and picked it up right off the turnstile? Wow. You know, that's tried to do today? I don't think you could do it today. I don't know. I mean, because back then you

16:56  
could do dogs in airport and pick it right.

16:58  
I mean, you could just go to the airport back then. And you could pay cash for a ticket, you know, I would pay cash for a one way ticket. And I would tell them, my name was John Smith. You know, this is like pre Patriot Act. You know, so they didn't have all the licenses, you know, I mean, you could they wasn't really big on money. I mean, you could really, because they only had like, the metal detectors. So at some brass balls, so yeah, but that's that's kind of how, you know, I, I just developed, you know, all these, you know, access to like, drugs through his eyes. Because I think, you know, like, when you come it's like anything in life when you you're confident and you tell him like, you know, because that's why, like in the drug trade, like, there'll be like, oh, you know, because big distributors they're looking for people couldn't move their shit, right. So you know, they're like, Oh, can you take 50? Can you do that? And a lot of people are like, Oh, no, I can't do that. Or they don't want to have the responsibility. I wasn't tired to do it. I would just jump on. I'd be like, yeah, give me whatever, I'll move it. I was gonna

17:47  
say from moving around from area to area. How do you keep up that trade? I mean, you gotta you got to get yourself involved with, like these other these bigger drug dealers?

17:57  
Yeah, well, I mean, I moved around a lot as a kid. So um, you know, my dad retired from the military, probably, you know, about 86, you know, when I was probably like, 16, and we settled in Northern Virginia. And that's kind of where, you know, my whole thing started. But you know, also from growing up in California, I had contacts in California friends, you know, that childhood friends or whatever. And, and I would go back to California to LA Times in the summer, you know, and visit and stuff. So kind of like they got involved in kind of like the dead counterculture Grateful Dead counterculture scene, you know, I kind of got involved in the Grateful Dead counterculture scene. So then, you know, once we get like, 16 1718, and we're kind of like, comparing notes. So I got to the point, like, you know, for the LSD, I could get them to ship LSD, like, through the mail, you know, to me in Northern Virginia, and I would supply all the colleges, I could get them to ship and like, we're talking, this is like, 8889, you know, I could get them like in the Emerald triangle where they grew like what we call kind, but back then, you know, as opposed to the Mexican break pot, I would get them to like mail me because back then, you know, the farmers you know, they were only trying to get maybe like 2030 pounds a year, you know, because they grow in the mountains up there. So they, you know, grow on the size of the mountains and everything. There were so many helicopters and stuff from the war on drugs, they really concentrated on that area. So the a lot of these farmers, they were just trying to get like 2030 pounds a year and that's how, you know, they made their money, but they were selling like each of those pounds for probably like three, four grand, you know, then like down the line, you know, people are paying like, whatever, you know, $100 a quarter, you know, which is like $6,400 a pound so that's how you can make money on it.

19:36  
I'm listening to you talk about this stuff. And you've developed this whole business plan in your head at a very young age. Do you realize yes, you took the path of least resistance. Right Would you agree with that? That to get to your to get your goal of that acceptance? This seems to be the fastest conduit you

19:54  
know what I found out? I was always good at everything. Like I was good at sports. You know? I'm saying I was good academically, you know, I was, I was, I was good with girls, I was pretty much good at everything I did. But I wasn't great at anything. And you know, like when you're in high school, and you're growing up, and there's people that are just like, great at something, you got the jocks and you got, you know, yeah. And in comparison, you know, I was very versatile. So, when I became a, became the drug dealer, when I became the bad boy, that was like something that you were the best that I could become the best at, and it was easy to do it.

20:28  
Because I have a feeling knowing you for a very short time and talking to you on the phone that I have a feeling no matter what you did in life, you are going to be successful. Like there's certain people that are set out in this life to be successful. As long as they make the right moves. You chose drugs, and you are ultra successful, but I'm pretty sure if you would have chose your current professional writing and filmmaking that you still would have been perfected, you were great, maybe take a little bit longer. And that's that I see that in so many different people who go away to prison, and it takes them that moment of clarity, that time where they can just sit back, relax, collect their thoughts and reorganize, to get to there, but you will make how much money you think you were making a week on your your best.

21:14  
I had a nine month run try like from 91 to 91 before I caught my fake case where I was probably making like 2530 grand a month profit as as a as a 1920s, late teens, early 20s as a 1920 year olds, so nine months, you know, everything was a build up, you know, I had that age and like 1316 where I had all the realizations and I was kind of dabbling. And then I had like that age like 16 to 19 where I was kind of getting the contacts, you know, I was getting the connections, all my friends were different colleges. You know, I ended up by basically like 8990, I was supplying 15 colleges in five states on the east coast with LSD and wheat. And this is what I used to do. I just used to drive around, man, I have like a circle, you know, I would go down like at one of Virginia, I will talk I would stop, you know, I will stop like you know VMU you know, over Virginia. University of Virginia Radford you know, Virginia Tech, you know, Virginia Commonwealth, and then I would come up, I would come up to Kentucky like Eastern Kentucky University Kentucky, I would go into West Virginia, West Virginia University, which in Morgantown, which was like a huge fucking party school, you know, and then I would go into Pennsylvania and I would hit Penn State at State College, but then I would hit all the satellite campus because Penn State has like seven satellite campuses. So I would hit all those, then I would come back and down into Maryland, like University of Maryland and then I would even go into DC and hit some of the DC schools you know, and then like the Northern Virginia schools like George Mason, so I just used to like basically like drive around in the States and I would drop off wheat and a lot of times it was front because it was all people I went to high school with I went to a real big high school in Northern Virginia.

22:54  
Again, I had like a contacted all these different places you can just pull up with your guards, okay, weed for some set,

22:59  
the weed guy doesn't work that way. But you you you develop this business and you're probably living like a king, at 19 years old. 30 grand a month you're living like a king. Let's let's call it what it is

23:09  
in 1990. So you know, I mean, different, you know, 9090 I think 30 grand was

23:14  
by yourself a nice car, or was it nonchalant

23:17  
I had I used to get like those. They have those Subaru I used to get the Subaru turbo station wagons that said the four wheel drive on the side. So I had three of those. Those were like my smoke because I was I'm a drug smuggler. That's what I was. You know, I

23:31  
was a drug smuggler graduated from pot dealer to drug smuggling. Yeah. So

23:35  
you know, because I would go like, like I say, I would go to Kentucky and I would get weed, I would go to Texas and get weed. I will go down to Florida like Fort Myers and get weed. I would get stuff. I wouldn't drive from the west coast, but I would get stuff the LSD and mushrooms and the Humboldt County but I would get sent, you know, from the West Coast, you know, in smaller amounts, you know, but like I would say I would I would drive down to Texas, I would pick up like 100 pounds, you know, 150 pounds, I would go down Fort Myers, Fort Myers, like a lot of people don't know, Fort Myers, Fort Myers was a big drug port in Florida. I used to get a lot of wheat out of there.

24:08  
So how eventually you're writing how you're doing this great business. There had to come a time where the man, the government's looking at you. Because you're you're moving a lot. You there's eyes on you. So when's the first time that you got the inkling that something was maybe a miss?

24:27  
Yeah, I used to do I used to do these things where I would actually like, I would just like disappear for like, two or three months, you know, because I knew because I see my name too. Like I knew in Northern Virginia. Not everybody knew my last name, but everybody knew Seth. Right? Because that, you know, I mean, I know they got like Seth Rogen and all these people now with Seth, but back then and then the late 80s I mean, there was hardly anybody named Seth. You know, this has been like more like in the 90s and 2000s. This name has been more commonplace. So I knew people knew my name so I would you know, kind of go take two months like when Mike case was developing. I was actually in Hawaii for two months. You know, because I felt like it may it was a little hot because they had a bust at UVA. You know, it was like one of those busts, like where the DEA where they went in on like a high profile college fraternity at UVA. And they didn't really get anything, you know, they got like, you know, some Bong, some skills, a few hits acid or whatever, but that acid was from me, you know, so people started mentioning my name, so

25:24  
I was gonna say in these college kids, they're gonna start chirping from Seth. Yeah, so

25:28  
you know, but a lot of the lot of these people were so far removed, because I insulated myself, you know, like, the, the bigger I got, I insulated myself, I always did, like, I would basically deal with like, five people, you know, and through them, you know, I would even tell them sometimes, because I knew the people who did the stuff, maybe I even went to school with them. But you know, like, like I say, we might all three know each other. We all deal drugs. I'm the source. But I don't want to fuck with you, because I don't like the way you move. So everything goes through you. You know? Um, so

25:57  
one point of contact that way you lessen the chance of that? spiderweb Yeah, that's that's the way we develop sea ice confidential informants in our job you deal with some of people are trying to get out of out of jail. So they're not always totally out of jail term. They're not always totally upfront, but you deal with one CI is when you have that net of C eyes and they all know about each other. They're going to start working against you. Yeah, I

26:23  
wish I would try to compartmentalize to basically that's what I would do. I would compartmentalize I didn't want this person. No, this person was doing. I didn't even know what this person know how much this person was moving. You know, and then my biggest thing because I didn't carry a gun or anything, you know, like, I was not like a criminal organization. I was basically like a freelance one man show. Yeah, entrepreneur and I used to drive around and I always had drugs, money, you know, in my car, you know, and I had different stash houses at different places. But my back then, you know, didn't have cell phones back then. But we had like the one 800 beeper that was like, I hated the one 800 beeper, you know, so I was like, big time, they did have those big brick phones, but they were like, so expensive. I didn't have one of those. I think they were going for like 2000 back then. Because they were just dollars for a phone call. They were just so big. So I just had the one that 100 beeper, but that was my biggest, my biggest deterrent against like getting robbed or, you know, against, you know, someone like, you know, pulling up on me, or even like somebody knocking me out and finding me out. I was tired to do like, I might be 30 minutes from Morgantown. But you know, the dudes are beating me like, Hey, we got your money, when you get to come through, you know, it'd be Oh, I'm gonna be there in two days. And I know, I'm gonna be there. I'm like, half hour away. So they don't have time to set up. That's yeah, so that was what that was, like, you know, I used a lot of misdirection, you know, and then sometimes, like, dudes would be hitting me, and I would just show up, like, I wouldn't even let them know when I'm coming, I would just show up, you know, because I had like, all these different colleges. I had, like, dudes I went to high school with so they got all these different party houses. And I had like keys to all the houses, because most of them I paid rent, and I pay their phone bills, because when I would get to these places, I would talk on their phones like crazy long distance, because that's how I did all my business. You know, it was never like an a phone call. We had no cell phones or Yeah, so I won't go. Yeah, I would might have a girl at a college, I'd be at my friend's party house. And I will be running their phone bill at like two 300 a month. long as you're paying. Yeah, they didn't care. But you know, so it wasn't my name, because I used to use pay phones a lot, too. So, you know, I would try it. Yeah, no one knows now. I,

28:32  
my son saw my 12 year old son the other day, because that's what's that? And I said, Well, that's that's how we used to get our drugs. No,

28:39  
no, I used to have like, I used to write it down. So there'd be banks of payphones, you know, at these different colleges, and you know, where I had different stash houses. And I would have the numbers written down and I would have a number like number one, number two, number three, number four. So basically, I could call somebody that was somewhere else. And I can be like, Oh, hit me, I wouldn't even have to say the number because I would give them I would write it out for him. You know, the dudes I was working with and I would give him these lists. And I'd be like, well hit me number one in West Virginia. And they know you know, they dial the number that I talked him get sometimes you got to go wait, they got to wait till they go to a payphone and then you always got to have a lot of quarters to that's a

29:14  
lot of moving parts. That's a lot of moving parts that ever get the paranoia ever setting. You sound like you're insulating yourself good.

29:21  
Not when I when I was doing it now, I mean, because it because I I just liked the whole war on drugs thing, right? Because like so. So the war on drugs really started popping off. You know, like around 8788 I guess that's when they changed the laws and Nancy Reagan, right? Just say no, yeah, but what they were it was like the, I don't know, call it Omni Bus crime, but I think Joe Biden was like, you know, the architect of it. But um, it was, at first, you know, because in the 80s You know, the crack era, you know, and all the narco terrorism. So, you know, looking back now, you know, our country, you know, rightly so or not rightly so. I think and even like in New York, like cops are getting shot by crack dealers, you know, they had the big the Edward Byrne case. Yes. You know, I'm saying where they just went up and executed this rookie cop. He was just like, you know, watching the witnesses house. So, I mean, there was a lot of, I think, a lot of fear in government because they saw what was happening over here with the crack. And they were like, they didn't want it to be like Pablo Escobar, like Colombia, the narco terrorism, because that's that stuff was huge in the 80s, you know, and look, Pablo Escobar almost took over Colombia. I mean, Pablo Escobar bombed a plane out of the fucking sky to kill a fucking a political guy.

30:35  
But what they don't realize is pot and LSD are far different than crack.

30:40  
Oh, yeah. No, but no. So they made these laws, though, because of the crack. And because they didn't want this Narco terrorism, you know, which was funded by money to take over and they saw all these guys in the hood. So they made these laws, you know, reactive, you know, rightly so we're not rightly so I mean, it depends on you know, who tells the story, but, uh, they were just basically going after all the black guys in the hood for the first, you know, three or four years when they made these laws, you know, that that's who the people were being targeted, you know, some, some because they deserved it. And some because they were just there.

31:13  
They weren't looking at the white dude. Yeah, but

31:15  
then you don't fit the profile. I'm sorry, you just don't. Yeah,

31:18  
so I just, I never thought. And like I say, I lived outside DC. So I saw this stuff going on. But I just never thought like, because I knew dudes older than me that were like big weed dealers, and they had started businesses and all types of stuff. And that was kind of like my plan. You know, I wanted to become a cash millionaire. By the time I was 25, that was my plan. And I was gonna have all these different businesses, you know, in front of all my drug money into them, and fund them. So I never had the inclination that I could even get caught. First off, I thought I was too smart to get caught, you know, a second off, I didn't think I would ever be targeted. But after the inner city is getting hit so hard with these drug war laws for like, three or four years, you know, then then people started claiming racism and you know, I mean, we can look back now we can say, yeah, a lot of these laws were racist, you know, in a lot of ways, but that's when, like the DEA, and the Fed said, like, Okay, well, we're gonna bus white drug dealers to, you know, to make it seem like we're not racist. So that's what they did. I was in that first wave. My case was 91. So that was a first wave when they went out to the suburbs, you know, and they started getting the weed dealers and LSD, because, you know, I mean, basically, I mean, they got big coke dealers out in the suburbs, too, but I think they anybody, like if you're dealing with like Coke, heroin, meth, I mean, those guys are getting pop because there's a lot of violence associated with the tray. There's a lot of money. But I mean, the marijuana and psychedelics I mean, that trade like, like I came up on to the Grateful Dead, right, so the Grateful Dead, there's a bunch of people that follow the Grateful Dead a

32:46  
rally called Dead heads, right. And so follow them around the country.

32:49  
Yeah. And a lot of them like, that's what they do. They do marijuana and they do LSD, they do mushrooms, right. But they call them they call them families. Right. And I always thought I always thought it was weird because like, you know, they call it family. They don't call them criminal organizations. So I think there's like a big difference, you know, like, somebody that's involved in like marijuana LSD is it's, you know, even though you know, could say, okay, yeah, you can brand it as a criminal organization, but it's not the same. It's not the mafia. It's not like these, you know, these crack, Dread drug lords, these Colombians, you know, where, because if you snitch in a Grateful Dead family, you just get ostracized you don't get killed, right? You don't have to go to next show. Yeah, you just, you know, everybody starts fucking with you. But no, you know, No, nobody's gonna kill. It's not like, you know, the bikers or the mafia, or the you know, these other drug lords like the Mexican cartels. Now, you know, you snitch. I mean,

33:41  
you're dead. Your family's dead. Your cousins are dead. But there had to be that that. So I guess a come to Jesus moment where they were on you. And you? What was that feeling? Like?

33:52  
Yeah, so I knew. I was actually I was in Hawaii. And, um, like, there was like, some little bus like on the state level. And like, shit was getting fucked up. And like some some of my guys like, dudes, I went to high school with, they were supposed to be working together. You know, it seemed like dudes were snitching on each other. And, you know, I'm just chilling out, I'm waiting. I'm basically waiting for the fall because I wouldn't make my money in the fall, when when they harvested the we that's I made the most money like, I'm like, well, we call the client but like the good weed that they would grow in this country. So I come back, I cut my Hawaii trip short, and I come back and really, like, in retrospect, it was one of the stupid things I ever did. So I come back and I'm like, walking basically, right into a hornet's nest. You know, they got like a, it kind of went from that UVA case, that University of Virginia case and they kept investigating, they kept spiraling and they kept getting more people because a lot of people knew who I was, you know, and then it was also the summertime so everybody was back from college in Fairfax County. You know, that's where that's where I Robertson high school, you know, that's where my parents lived. And that's where I like I had a couple different house As you know, and where I was basically ran my operations from, so everybody was back. And it was like the summer of 91. Two, and it was like, you know, back then, like, nobody would think about that now, but back then, like, sometimes in the summer, especially like 8889 9091, like, it would be so dry. For weed, like you couldn't even get any weed, you know, because, you know, the harvest would only be for like, maybe three months of the fall, and then the Mexican brick pot was coming, you know, but like, they were doing a lot of stuff on the border. So that stuff wasn't always coming in. So, you know, I remember like on the East Coast, like the law enforcement would put up like, you think they put up billboards like, you know, referring to weed like, you think it's dry now wait till this summer? You know, and they would be like billboards up like that, you know, but, um, yeah, so I kind of come back into this Hornet's Nest, you know, that there's no weed. And I'm, like, shits kind of fucking up, you know, like, couple little different busts. And all I'm thinking is I need to get my money up for the fall, because that's when I'm gonna make a killing, you know, because I was basically making like, $1,000 a pound off that good weed, you know, and, but you had to come with the money because they just do these little grows like 2030 pounds. So, you know, you got to come with, like, 20 or 30 grand, and just by the farmers out, you know, and I would go see, like, every fall, I go see, like, 56789 farmers, you know, so I'm coming back, cut my trip short from Hawaii come back. And I have no idea. I'm like, basically walking into the, into the Hornet's Nest, you know, there's already investigation started, they don't know, my full name. But they kind of got an idea who I am. You know, and because, you know, everybody's saying everything's from me. And then I did another real stupid mistake, because it was so dry, there was no weed, so I couldn't get any weed to sell. So I just like, flooded, I flooded the whole northern Virginia with like acid. Like, just like, so this is how much I flooded. So when I first started bringing LSD into into Northern Virginia and into the East Coast, like, you know, 8788, it would probably be like $15 a hit, maybe up $20 A hit. By this time, like 91 It's like two $3 a hit.

37:18  
You know what I'm saying and over flooded it. Yeah, saturated it and, and all my people from college, they're all the same place and everybody you know, because we're all trying to gear up for the fall, because we know, that's when we can make the money with a good weed when they harvest. So everybody's trying to get their money up. And so everybody's trying to sell acid, so it was just saturated. And then they had this other thing that happened actually, in Fairfax County, there's this area called Clifton, it's like all these millions, like, back then it was all these million dollar homes, like, you know, big, you know, I don't know, maybe like five acres. But um, you know, like, all kids are the suburbs, you know, when the parents are gone, you know, we throw party, so they had this big field party in Clifton. And like, we would bring in stages, we bring in like skate ramps, and there might be like, 500, you know, 600 people there. And it'd be out on this five acres, you know, in this field behind the house. And, you know, inevitably, you know, the, you know, later at night, the cops would get called to the cops would come in. And, um, and it was just everybody was tripping on acid, right. So there was this 115 year old kid, he was like, running naked through the woods, like tripping on acid, you know, having a bad trip, I don't know, whatever. And, you know, a cop was chasing him, the cop grabbed him, you know, tackle them. And this kid somehow managed to take the cops gun out, and he shot him in the arm. Oh, no. So once that happened, now, the analyzer on you, then it was like it was it was like, you know, and like I say this, from my point of view, you know, I can see law enforcement point of view too. But from my point of view, it was it was basically like an LSD witch hunt. You know, like, they were just going hard. So they brought the DEA in. And like I say, some some other people had been investigating all this different stuff on the state level and the federal level. And then, you know, at this point, once, one of their own got shot, and like I say, I mean, I'm not gonna, you know, do didn't get killed or nothing, but, uh, you know, he was a freshman, but I'm sure you know, I've never got shot in the arm, but I'm sure it's not very pleasant.

39:19  
Sure, it's got to hurt.

39:20  
So, you know, I'm not discounting it or downplaying it. But, yeah, so they started this investigation, and I'm actually the dude who sold that kid because that kid, you know, he told him where he got the LSD from. So the dude that sold it to him was actually a dude at one time. He was like, one of my real good friends, but this is way back, you know, probably like five, you know, four years ago when we were like, freshmen, you know, our sophomores. So he was still he was very far removed from me. But they got him and then he kind of took him up the chain, and the chain eventually led to me and you know, then, like I say, it was crazy. So from when that happened, like Maybe in June like when I was in Hawaii and then I got back I kind of walk into this and then like July August 91 It's like crazy like Everybody I talked to you know, it's like oh the DEA is coming you know the state narcotics people are coming, you know, and they're asking about you so I'm like hearing this for like two months at the same time I'm trying to you know, sell as much as I got all this acid in the area and I'm just trying to like get rid of it. I'm trying to dump it because my whole goal is still like by September I want to get as much cash as possible so I can buy this weed and make money and um, yeah, it was just it was bad situation on my part. And like I say, I had no idea of the federal laws or that they were coming out you know, to the suburbs or that they were actively looking for cases you know, out there and you know, in retrospect it was really stupid of me if I ever would have had some type of intuition or some type of foresight you know, I could have maybe just disappeared or whatever but I just kept doing my thing and you know, they eventually found me and I got indicted federally

41:00  
how much they catch you with

41:01  
I got caught with nothing

41:02  
you got caught with nothing It was just what you sold but

41:04  
it was just the case that they caught they caught

41:06  
they caught somebody else with a like, like 120 sheets you know, which which is basically like you know, 12,000 12,000 hits acid. Wow. So and you know, granted I mean it was my you know, but you didn't

41:23  
have one at one point it was your possession is nine tenths of the law and it didn't seem like you had possession

41:28  
I really I never got caught with you know, I did I got 25 years in prison I never got caught with the new drugs let's divert got caught with any money. Stop for

41:35  
a second. Yeah, so you got caught with no drugs? You got caught with no drugs they give you 25 years. Did you piss somebody off?

41:46  
Well, yeah, no, I did good. Because I took off. I was a fugitive for two years. So no kidding. I took off how you know, I was US Marshals top 15 most wanted list.

41:55  
Well, what that feels like inside when you were on the run that anxiety. I'd say the

41:59  
first six months, man, I was kind of paranoid because, um, you know, like, when the Feds coming in and kind of crash your world like that. And, you know, they get to everybody and you just think like, like, they're like this universal AI in the sky. You know, and brother's watching. Yeah, I mean, really, it's not like that. I mean, yeah, it's some level. I mean, there's probably people that can do that. But it's not like the DEA doesn't have that type of capability, or the local Narcotics Officers don't have that type of capability. But uh, yeah, so that when I went on the run, like the first six months, I was like, I was like, super paranoid man, because I thought like, they could track me you know, now, I mean, they could track you with the phone. But you know, back then I had different ID and everything. I was just like super paranoid because they kind of collapse my whole world

42:47  
was this. That's what I was gonna say. When you were on Iran. You couldn't go back to your old friends. No, I

42:51  
cut out I cut off time with basically everyone you

42:53  
couldn't go to your your crash houses would just go from hotel to hotel or

42:57  
No, I just went out. I went out to California and actually got a place right in Hollywood. I hung out there for so you fit right in

43:05  
the other drug dealers? No,

43:07  
but your parents being a military kid. Your father's a Marine. That's gotta be tough. Like, what was their reaction when you get caught? Now when you went on the road before you went on around before you answer that? Did you already know what what time you're looking at?

43:21  
Yeah, I was looking at 20 Life 20 to life.

43:23  
What did your parents say to that?

43:26  
I mean, they didn't agree with it. I mean, they, they, you know, they, I mean, cuz through this whole thing, like from the age of 13, I'd kind of, you know, destroy the relationship with my parents, because I was kind of like, you know, the proverbial, like, you know, Rebel Without a Cause, except I had a cause and it was like LSD and marijuana. But, uh, you know, I'd really destroy the relationship with them, you know, there was a lot of friction, you know, they really weren't happy. You know, they kind of they didn't exactly know, at the level I was doing stuff, but they knew I was doing stuff. And, you know, even though they wanted to deny it, you know, it was still kind of there. You know, what I'm saying? To take? Yeah, so I mean, yeah, they obviously weren't happy but um, you know, when they did find out like, the time I was face, and I mean, they they thought it was wrong. They were like, you know, I was a first time nonviolent offender. So they were like, how can you be looking at 20 The life

44:18  
but did they know how in depth you are? Until it?

44:21  
I mean, yeah, once I got the case, and the newspaper articles and stuff came out. Yeah, they knew. The Washington Yeah, the Washington Post was called me the Fairfax County LSD King pan or the Northern Virginia LSD Kingpin.

44:34  
You got that fame and notoriety you were looking for. Except the wrong guy.

44:38  
I mean, the outlaw status. Yeah. My outlaw resume was a pretty big back then.

44:43  
So you go away. And you do. How many years did you do total? 21. You did? 25%. Right. Yeah, that's crazy. That first day and I've heard this I've never been to prison, but I've heard this that you're gonna get as reformed as you're gonna get once that door closes the first night. Is that? Is there any validity to that?

45:03  
I don't know. I think for me, it was more. Um, you know, I had a lot of times. So, you know, I was very angry at first. So, you know, I did get involved, right with college classes like, right when I came in they these two, you could take them through the Pell Grant, they actually have the instructors come in, you know, right from I was in Manchester, Kentucky, a medium high security, prison. And it was weird because they have the teachers coming in from Eastern Kentucky, to teach in the prison at night. And I used to sell drugs at Eastern Kentucky. So that was like, kind of weird. Probably.

45:34  
Some of the instructors Yeah.

45:37  
Hey, remember me. But that's interesting. So you get all this time and at what point during your time you decide to use it. And I know this from my stint in rehab. So my stint in rehab, I went in there with three notebooks, two books, because I'm going to use my time. I'm not going to sit there and wasted, you know, you can sit there and you can rest you can do this, you can do that. You can scroll around, you can. But you chose to use your time. Well, how did that decision come about?

46:03  
I think it was gradual process, like over the first 10 years. But I mean, I jumped right into college classes. I mean, basically because like prisoners real boring, you know, so do I need something though? So and you know, I'd always been a big education dude, before I got into drugs. And both my parents are like, you know, like, my whole family. Even my, my little brother and little sister, like, everybody has master's degrees, I finally got my master's degree in prison. So I was the last one to get it. But, you know, it took me a while to get it. But, uh, yeah, so I dived right into the education. But um, it kind of took me like, 10 years, I was just kind of doing that, you know, just kind of break the monotony, you know, and kind of repair the relationships, my parents because they were big believers in education. So when I started getting like four point o's and stuff like that, that's I kind of repair the relationship with my family during my first couple years, but, uh, yeah, it took me like, 10 years. But like, 10 years, and, you know, maybe by maybe like six years, and I kind of decided I wanted to be a writer, you know, and that's how, like, everything kind of progressed from then, you know,

47:06  
is another form of creation. So this is this is actually, it sounds crazy, that you go to prison as a successful drug dealer, and you end up in prison as a successful writer. Because like I said, Before, I have the feeling about you that you would have been successful no matter what you do, you just have to put your full energy and your full thought I'm watching the way you're just reeling off statistics and math in your head on these drugs. This is this this is this this is yet I did this and this this, how did you figure out the writing game because the writing game is brutal.

47:36  
Meanwhile, Kevin hasn't been successful on one venture, he's like it. But

47:40  
yeah, I just, you know, I'm

47:42  
successful breaking new jobs,

47:43  
I took the courses. So um, you know, I was taking, I started out in the classes, but then they did away with the Pell grants. So then luckily, by that time, I'd taken the Pell grants for two years, so I had like really good grades. And so my parents, you know, said, if you want to continue college will pay for a correspondence course. So I actually, I got into correspondence program through Penn State, that's where to because I used to sell drugs. So he goes out. So

48:08  
it's like visiting the campus,

48:10  
from Penn State to State Penn

48:12  
State. So I got my AAA degree through correspondence. And when you do correspondence, you knows all through the mill, you can basically do like a business kind of administration route, or you can do like a liberal arts and you know, if you do like a liberal arts, or humanities, I mean, it's basically like a lot of writing. So writing heavy, you know, like history writing papers. So I started kind of teaching myself to write, so I got, you know, I got my a degree, then I got my BA degree through a University of Iowa. And then I finally, you know, somewhere, you know, about, you know, 15 years down the line, you know, I got my master's degree, you know, from California State University, and that was more film heavy. But, you know, I just always thought as a writer, it's like a progression. It's like, I started writing articles. You know, just like little pieces. I started getting them published from from the inside. You know, I actually started writing for Vice, I did start doing a column for Vice, like when I was in prison, and then I got out. This is like, early 2000s. And I got out advices, like this big media conglomerate, like, I had no idea and I had been, I was like, a vice OG had been writing for him since they were like this little tiny company. So and you

49:20  
also wrote for one of my favorite publications, which one penthouse?

49:23  
Oh, yeah, I did. And I did a lot of stuff for penthouse. So I wrote for like, a ton of overseas. So I started out articles in like, 2005 I started doing the books, but all gangster books, you know, and there's a ton of them out there. Yeah, I got like, I got like, 25 books

49:41  
out. That's great. Well, you know what, like I said, you have all the time in the world to sit down there and reevaluate your life and really pursue in that fashion. Something that you obviously got to get a talent for.

49:53  
I mean, I've wrote the majority of those books in prison too. So you know, I've done a couple of since I've been out but even the ones that I put since I've been out I wrote A lot of the stuff you know so all like African American drug laws like prison gangs like mafioso because I was locked out with all these dudes. So, you know, I kind of got the idea. You know, I was like, I would just go up to like dudes that I was on the compound with and I'll be like, Man, let me write your story. You know, some said no, some said yes. So that's kind of how it went and um, but my whole trajectory the whole way with the writing thing like I saw filmmaking was like the ultimate goal because to me as a writer, that's what you do you do articles, you do books, then you do film. You know, like if you're going to advance your aggression. Yeah, that's a progression.

50:36  
I'm wondering where you're going from here. But don't go anywhere just yet. Because you got some big things out. I know you just had white boy on Netflix, where you wrote it. You produce? What were your credits on it? I know you wrote it.

50:48  
Yeah, no, I wrote it and produce it. So I'm actually Shawn rec from transition studios. He's a director and it's his studio. But you know, I brought the idea to him it was based, like, because I've done a whole I've been corresponding with Rick, since around 2005. So I got in 2015. We're talking

51:05  
about Rick wash white boy, Rick himself. Yeah. And, um, we were corresponding,

51:09  
he was in one prison, and I was another and I was writing about his case while I was in there, you know, because, because when he told me about his case, because, I mean, this dude was, like, started out like, he was brought into the game, you know, as an informant when he was 14. And I was like, how do you got like a life sentence? Like when you're an informant, so that was just like, you know, I was like, crazy. And, you know, it was like any even in prison, like, you always, you know, everybody in prison, like, you distance yourself from informant but this dude, like the legend about this dude, he had like this mythology from Detroit. It's like, you know, it was kind of like, like a character, like somebody like 50 cent, like, half the people loved him, half the people hated him. You know, he had that kind of, you know, I guess, admiration or envy or hate that he generated. So he had like, this crazy story. And I thought it was crazy, too, because it was like, How can a 16 year old white kid, like run the drug trade in the crack era in Detroit? So it was just, it was like, phenomenal, this whole story. You know, and then I found out like, all the details and everything. And yeah, so when I when I got out. That was like, one of the stories I wanted to do, because we've talked about doing a book and stuff, but I was getting out, not wanting to help them get out too. Because I was like, dude, like, you know, this dude ended up doing like, 32 years in prison for, you know, not a first time offense, but a non violent offense. Maybe you saw a little bit of yourself. And yeah, we did, we had it, we had a lot of similarities. You know, and, um, and plus, he had got a life sentence when he was 17. And in 2012, the Supreme Court said, You can't give a juvenile life sentence that was illegal, and they still had him in. So, you know, his case was very political. But I was very blessed to meet Shawn Rec. And Shawn rec, kind of mentored me because I had an only been out of prison, maybe like, 18 months at this time, in I wanted to be a filmmaker, and I'd done some little shorts and stuff like that, you know, but nothing serious or nothing big time. And, you know, once he had found out I had access to the story, and he could base the whole documentary off my work, you know, he like, basically, you know, made me offer and, you know, he mentored me, you know, and how to make documentaries. And like for that, you know, I'm like, you know, eternally grateful to him, because I learned from him I got to be a part of this amazing documentary that ended up on Netflix and ended up top 10 on Netflix. And we got just took it off to Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we didn't renew with them. So it's supposed to go on to be though, you know, when you switch like a platform, sometimes you gotta wait like, two three months. Yeah, contract, contractually. So it should be on to be, you know, sooner than later. So it's gonna go on to we've never done the AVOD before. Like, that's advertising video on demand. So it's supposed to go on that shortly. But, uh, you know, I, I helped to get Rick out. And like I said, the documentary can't say that was everything. There was a lot of people, you know, a lot of advocacy, you know, on Rick's behalf, but we helped to get him out and I gotta make this amazing film. And, more importantly, I got to learn how to make a film from a Sean record was an Emmy winning, he's an Emmy winning, you know, Emmy winning writer, director, producer, you know, he cut his teeth. He did like 200 Crimestoppers shows for all the networks. And he won nine Emmys not like regional Emmys in Ohio. You know, not not discounting them by any means. But you know, not like a you know, not like a national

54:29  
Emmys and me you could always say I'm an Emmy Award winner, but yeah, so

54:32  
he he basically mentored me and train me. And um,

54:36  
and while we're doing this, but you're still going it's not it's not like you're one and done. You wrote 25 bucks. You did white boy, and you're still going there. You got this new one coming out nightlife which I gotta tell you, I watched it. Brother. Fantastic, like, fantastic. I was hoping to watch it in snippets, because it's

54:58  
what two hours notice about 75 minutes.

55:01  
Okay, I was hoping to watch it in snippets. I ended up sitting through and I got the attention span of a gnat. You know, he's

55:10  
one of those things you can you can, you don't you know is, you don't want to leave yourself on a cliffhanger. Let you start watching it, you just got to keep watching it to the end.

55:19  
So I love the fact that you you chose to focus, you're actually going somewhere else, you're going to somebody who's trying to change the circumstances around them. So it's about this the preachers name, and it's his name, Reverend Reverend Reverend Kenneth McCoy, Reverend Kenneth McCoy. And he's taken back the streets of St. Louis. It's amazing. And where's that coming out? And let's start there. Where and when?

55:43  
Yeah, so that's, um, so that's the north side of St. Louis and north side of St. Louis is has, like perennial, permanently being in the top five, like for murder capital of the world, but then they got that line. Yeah, it's called the dome or divide. It's, it's crazy, man. Cuz it's like the north of this dome, our divide is predominantly, like black and poor and South is, is you know, rich and white. And you go from like, million dollar houses to like, you know, crack houses. And it's basically like a block party. And it's weird too, because, I mean, it's not like there's not cops here. But all the cops are where the property is, where the property is valuable, like the other side, like, they don't care. You know, I even know, like, I interviewed like citizens, and they'll walk across a block to like, where the Central West End is in the cop car sitting there. And they'll be like, hey, you know, there's like, an open air drug market over there. And the council just be like, Yeah, we know. You know, I mean, I think this story that I did nightlife, it's a microcosm of what's happening, like, like, all over our country, you know, like, with redlining, you know, gentrification, you know, all this different type of issues. And, um, yeah, when I met, I met this guy, the Reverend Kim McCoy. You know, I actually the article about him and his ministry called nightlife for Vice first, you know, it was called the people who walk St. Louis's most dangerous streets. And I did this in 2015. And at the same time, I'm starting to make whiteboy at this time, so I want to make my own film, because I'm learning, but I don't have any funding. Right. So I'm looking for something local. And I'm looking for something like I can get some college students, you know, with cameras out. And, you know, I kind of find the story. So we just go out with this guy. I'm like, Hey, can we just come out with you and start following you with cameras? And he's like, he's like, Yeah, cool. So we just start falling on the cameras. Insane,

57:33  
by the way, so I didn't share it. I won't share it. But you're so your camera crew. Are you out there? I don't know whether you were on set at the time. There's walk around. Yeah, there's your pop pop pop up, like automatic gunfire?

57:48  
No, I'm in the film. You actually see me a couple times. I'm actually walking in the film. So I'm actually in the film, you know, walking around with like a yellow vest on. So yeah, it was crazy. So it's funny because one of my, one of my camera men was he was actually ex military dude. Like, I don't know, he was like, eight years, like he was in. I don't know, like Iraq, Kuwait, or whatever, you know, I guess in the 90s or 2000s. And then he got out. And he used his GI Bill to go to film school. And then I met this guy, his name is Corey Mac, he's actually He's a producer and a cameraman on the film. And so you know, and he was just starting, you know, filming, like, at that time, so it wasn't like he was that good. But the reason I brought him was because he had a, you know, he was licensed to carry and he knew how to use it, you know, ex military dude, you know, so, so I knew like, nobody else was one stone. Nobody else knew. But you know, this dude, like, every time we went out, you know, this dude had like, a nine, you know, thank God, he never had to break it out. We never had to use it. But I mean, he was the experience. Yeah, you know, he was an experienced dude. So he, you know, he'd been in a lot of situations and war situations. So, you know, but he had it. So I knew in some some, like, you know, the Reverend Kim McCoy, and probably some of the other camera people, they didn't do that. But that was important for me. You know, especially as ex con because I mean, I can't carry a gun. Just have somebody experienced. You know, so, um, yeah, we basically so we follow, we follow him around for two years, and we filmed, he goes out at night, like from 10pm to 2am. On Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights, like all the hotspots, and he's basically a violence interrupter. That's his main thing. But he brings out like fruits, you know, food, you know, blankets, socks, underwear, he has Narcan on him, you know, in case somebody's ODN he tries to get the addicts into rehab. He tries to get the homeless people, you know, into shelters. So that's kind of his thing. And so we film it for two years. I got all this footage man, we got tons of footage and I'm bringing out like three cameraman's three camera people, and every time we're going out, and um, then I got to start, like this editing process, you know? And I'm doing the white boy so I knew how to do it, but it was different because I I'm doing this basically with no budget, I don't have any money, you know, people are doing a lot of stuff for free for me, or I'm getting a lot of younger people just graduated college, you know, they want to be involved in something. So, you know, I, it took me a long time, it took me like five years to make this documentary, you know, two years of shooting, and then three years of editing. But you know, finally, you know, it's ready, we're going to premiere July 15, at the St. Louis filmmakers showcase. For me, it's important to premiere this film in St. Louis, because it's a St. Louis film, and what this guy is doing, he's basically the Reverend Kenneth McCoy. He's on a mission to save his community. So I wanted to have that impact on the community. But, you know, right after, you know, probably in August, we're gonna, we're gonna release it nationally. So it'd be available like on, you know, Amazon, iTunes, and then, then I'll be looking for stream streaming deal. I can't say it's going to end up on Netflix, because, you know, I don't know what Netflix is going to want to buy at that point when we're ready to put it up

1:00:55  
with this license with this story. Because there's very few people in this world that actually they'll everybody says I want to change the world. But there's very few people who are actually ready to take a hands on approach to changing the world. We're about a month out from your premiere. And would you have a problem with us? Go play in your trailer?

1:01:11  
No, no go ahead. Yeah you've.

1:01:28  
seen all these bombed out artists is what do you do? This is your d. D. These are your people.

1:01:39  
Say Louis is often described as one of the most divided cities in the country. The opioid crisis is the biggest public health emergency with a number of homicides in St. Louis this year, past 200.

1:01:58  
This is about making a human connection. You have to be able to see that there instantly.

1:02:05  
I love to go when nobody else will wear everybody skirt. So they got has forgotten. The pistol in part because you

1:02:14  
learned you telling me the question, why this way? We don't want to do that. No cameras off, man. It's real shit. What's the point you haven't faith? If you're not going to take a risk? If you're not going to take the chance if you're not gonna put yourself in harm's way for the sake of a greater good, what's the point? Or you can tell us Friday night. We praise You. We thank You for Your goodness and Your mercy. We think I've seen this city. And I've seen the spirit of these people. And I've watched these folk fight for the neighborhood. street by street, house by house. I started to say I hate to be so preachy, but I am a preacher. But anyway, we're just so blessed say Hi, Ron Brown. Hey, everybody, hello.

1:03:10  
I'd love I'd love for our audience to see this stuff. Because like you You are You did what you did, you change your life around. And we're coming to the end of this thing. And I think it's important for people to know that just because your current circumstances are now doesn't mean that they could be your future current circumstances. So at the end of every show, every guest that we bring in there, we walk them through this journey, you went through a really, really rough journey. non violent offender, 21 years in prison that you did out of a 25 year study. 2526 2525 years, 25 years. So if you had to quantify all this suffering that you went through in your life, what do you think it's taught you?

1:03:54  
I would just say, I always tell people, my biggest thing is, I'm relentless. You know, like,

1:04:00  
that's how I was, that's what I took out of it. Just keep going. You know, he's like, get keep going kind of guy. I mean, yeah, I'm

1:04:05  
not I'm not I'm not the most talented, there's people that are way more talented than me at everything. You know, but I think my best attribute my best talent is I'm relentless. I don't give up and, and like I say, I had to walk this journey. I mean, I look at it now, whatever, a lot of people like how do you do 21 years or whatever. But I mean, I did it. I had to do I didn't have any choice, you know, so I did it. And I walked through and I did the best I can at every moment every day. I mean, do I look back now and say, Oh, you could do this way you could do this way, whatever. You know, and, um, even even for my first five years, like, I will look back on my case. And I was like, What could I have done differently if I did this at this point? But you know, everybody can do that in life at some time. You just got to think whatever you did, you made the best decision what you thought at the time, even if it was awful decision, so you just got to leave the past in the past, you know, and keep moving forward. So that's how I do everything. You know, I don't allow any negativity in my life. I don't dwell on anything that happened. You got a great attitude. I just, I just move forward, man, you know, because I haven't seen out here. And I, this is a big thing that dude all that time taught me right because I did so much time I saw so many people come back, right? And I saw so many people like, they were like hung up on shit, they couldn't get over it. Like, the girl left him, you know, their baby mama will let them see their kids, you know somebody snitched on him, you know, they lost their house, they lost their money, you know, their best friend betrayed them, you know, all this different stuff. And I saw these people, and they're just like, they're like, fucked up, they keep dwelling on the same shit. And and they're, like, you know, they're on drugs, you know, they're on like that chaos at gang violence. You know, they're on whatever to get their mind off of the issue that's eating them up. And, you know, I saw this in prison like, it's, it's everywhere, like, right in front of your face, because it's such a negative world, right? And I just decided, like, I'm not going to be that person. You know, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to linger on you know, all the people, you know, the turn of foreman on me, I'm not going to linger on this. And you know, but then when I get out in the world, I see the same time. You know what I tell people all the time, right? I say, Look, man, the only thing that's gonna get in the way of your dreams is yourself. It's a good point.

1:06:14  
You can't you got to stop looking back. You know, there's a quote that I hear all time and I just heard it today too. That's why the windshield is bigger than rearview mirror.

1:06:22  
To good point. And I think we'll I think we'll leave it there. Seth, thank you so much for coming in. coming all this way to join us. This has been an eye opening experience. I've actually I've learned a lot. I want everybody to look out for your documentary nightlife. Of course whiteboy continue to watch that it'll be out I'm sure that's that's a that's a really good documentary. So I think it's going to be out everywhere. And that's going to do it for this episode of the suffering podcast. I want to remind everybody go to Bella dama cigars.com Put in suffering 10 You get a nice 10% Discount thanks again to Toyota of Hackensack visit Toyota hackensack.com. And let's think about all the stuff that we learned today. Everyone wants to be important. Sometimes the best things come from the worst things. Anything is possible if you choose to use your time but most importantly be relentless. I like that very much. And that's gonna do it for this episode of the suffering podcast is suffering with EX con filmmaker with Seth Ferrante. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Follow Mike at Mike underscore to flays follow me at real Kevin Donaldson also follow the suffering podcast and we're gonna see on the next episode of the suffering this has gone on let's talk about the suffering Center.